Wikimedia Foundation elections/Board elections/2015/Questions/4
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Distribution
Hi! Thanks for volunteering as a candidate for the Wikimedia Board. I have two questions. This one is about distribution freedom. As you know, free information implies freedoms to get, modify, and distribute content. Wikimedia Foundation is there to support and advance such information freedoms. In my opinion the 'anyone can edit' concept is an attempt at exercising the 'free to get and modify' freedom, but I have two concerns.
1) I believe that the current implementation of «anyone can edit» is a failure because of MediaWiki's bugs in flaggedrevs regarding templates, and because of inadequate diff viewer for reviewing edits.
- The way 'anyone can edit' works right now is encountering problems, especially on large wikis, as some pages are being protected and people are being shelled out of editing them, especially templates.
- Thanks to flaggedrevs, some pages are still editable, and a reviewer needs to approve the edit for it to be visible to other readers. But flaggedrevs has two bugs which prevent it from being used and scaling properly:
- a) For templates flaggedrevs is buggy and even a latest (even if unapproved) version of a template is always included.
- This bug impact is full protection of popular templates and introduction of the template editor right for lack of sysop human power to review the requested edits on the English Wikipedia.
- b) Instead of relying on git or other good old tested diffing software, an in-house mediawiki's php diff viewer is used, and as it is inadequate, the review backlog is increasing, making the sysops think that the flaggedrevs process is not successful. T
- This bug impact is full or partial protection from popular pages.
- In both cases, newcomers are assumed bad faith and driven away from editing.
- Most people would be too lazy to request an edit after realizing that the page is read-only.
- And there is no way to measure how many people closed the tab after seeing that the page is read-only.
- In my view, the WMF Engineering department consistently ignores the two above problems but doing so is a mistake.
2) I believe that providing adequate decentralized infrastructure for distributing content is vital for the success of the Wikimedia movement.
- The right/freedom to distribute content is not supported by the existing infrastructure. There is Wikia, but it is still centralized and making modifications to mediawiki or extensions on it is not possible. I would like to see the Wikimedia Foundation run a decentralized wiki program where anyone can copy a page or a number of pages (i.e. category members) to his own instance and edit them at leisure, including re-distribution and making them published. Running such program would also foster an increase in the number of mediawiki contributors. As with software, any useful edits from the copied versions can be cherry-picked back to Wikimedia projects.
- An interesting related essay: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html
Please comment on these two problems. Thank you. --Gryllida 02:17, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
Houcemeddine Turki (Csisc)
No response yet.
Sailesh Patnaik (Saileshpat)
No response yet.
Dariusz Jemielniak (Pundit)
I agree with the first point. On a more general level, many of our tools are not really functioning well. A thing I personally think is even more lacking, is proper bug reporting - Bugzilla is not a tool that allows for any sensible discussion with the community (and this example shows, why it is a problem). Per your second point, I think it would be good to have increased distribution, but and also a decentralized wiki. I would even dream of a totally dispersed distribution (after all, with enough users all over the world, a lot could be mirrored at users' computers, by their consent). However, I think that a change in this respect would be a huge software project, and I basically think we have more urging issues for the next two years.
Mohamed Ouda (Mohamed Ouda)
No response yet.
Josh Lim (Sky Harbor)
No response yet.
David Conway (Smerus)
I guess it's clear by now to those who have been reading my replies that I am not much above a layman when it comes to software issues. Again, I would need to review an evidence base to assess how serious is the problem of 'people being shelled out of editing'. However question 1, whilst it clearly reflects a genuine concern of Gryllida, doesn't give me any idea of the prevalence of the problems involved and it seems from its wording that there is 'no way to measure how many people' are affected by it. If there is a serious problem and if it is being exacerbated by the type of software being used, then evidently that is an issue for policy discussion and steps should be taken to address it.
As regards question 2, I agree that free distribution of content is an important part of the wiki projects. However, when we go beyond our immediate boundaries and start to try to specify how third parties distribute content, we get into deep water. We already see (on Google) how wiki material is widely recirculated under other 'branding', and sometimes edited/manipulated in the process. How do we animate distribution whilst preserving integrity? It doesn't seem to me that this proposal is an appropriate answer.--Smerus (talk) 06:13, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
Francis Kaswahili Kaguna (Francis Kaswahili)
No response yet.
Cristian Consonni (CristianCantoro)
No response yet.
Peter Gallert (Pgallert)
No response yet.
María Sefidari (Raystorm)
No response yet.
Phoebe Ayers (Phoebe)
No response yet.
Denny Vrandečić (Denny)
No response yet.
Ali Haidar Khan (Tonmoy) (Ali Haidar Khan)
No response yet.
Nisar Ahmed Syed (అహ్మద్ నిసార్)
No response yet.
James Heilman (Doc James)
Flagged revisions is a great idea. I agree that it does need more work to get it functioning smoothly and believe that the fact that it is slow is part of the reason it is used so little.
Yes anyone can edit. But that does not mean the bar to editing all of Wikipedia should be zero. We are radically opener than anything that has come before and while this has contributed to our success it has also come at the cost of many thousands of hours of volunteer time cleaning up poor quality edits.
In established languages, we are no longer a new encyclopedia in need of any old content. To take Wikipedia to the next level of quality requires research and consistent effort. Those who are serious about Wikipedia will spend the time to register an account and build a reputation. One of the first articles I tried to edit was semi protected. I ended up working on another topic until I was autoconfirmed. I do not think judicious use of semi protection turns away the editors we are most in need of.
I am not sure I understand the second part of the question. I have an entire copy of Wikipedia and Wikivoyage on my laptop. I could run my own instance of Mediawiki and set it up how I wish and many people do. There are more than 2000 mirrors of Wikipedia content for example. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 09:27, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Tim Davenport (Carrite)
I do not have a fundamentalist understanding of "anyone can edit." That's a lovely slogan, but it's simply not true, never has been true, and never will be true. Yet we still allow anybody to make changes through any IP address, without registration or accountability of any kind, and are left with the volunteer community to clean up the mess. Anyone can edit. Yes. Register an account and do good work, maintain NPOV firmly, commit no spam, provide sources — your contribution is welcome. That is what "anyone can edit" should mean. So am I concerned about random newcomers and potential vandals being locked out of template editing? Not in the least. Prove yourself to gain advanced rights. This is not what the questioner wants to hear but it is the way that we should approach things, speaking as a Wikipedian. As a board member I would say this: these matters are to be decided by each functioning language encyclopedia's volunteer community. But if an encyclopedia wants to require registration, I pledge to work my hardest to keep WMF from intervening against this and vetoing community action.
I am not a fan of flagged revisions, speaking personally as a Wikipedian.
As for the distribution of content: we release under a license providing for free reuse. That is the ultimate form of decentralized distribution. WMF's purpose is the production of content, helping to make sure that the best possible set of language encyclopedias are created and maintained. The distribution of that content produced is a matter for others, who have made it ubiquitous. Carrite (talk) 17:27, 17 May 2015 (UTC) —Last edit: Carrite (talk) 18:02, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
Samuel Klein (Sj)
No response yet.
Syed Muzammiluddin (Hindustanilanguage)
No response yet.
Edward Saperia (EdSaperia)
No response yet.
Mike Nicolaije (Taketa)
No response yet.
Kuhusu Africa
Mimi naitwa Diana Sherina francis nataka kujua uhusiano wa bara Africa je kuna mtu gani aliwahi kuchaguliwa kuwa kiongozi wa Wikimedia foundation najua kwa sasa kunamchakato wa uchaguzi kwa ajili ya wajumbe wa Body, ili kujua msima wa Wikimedia kama na sisi tunasifa ya kugombe kwenye hiyo Bodi --Dianasherina 13:05, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Houcemeddine Turki (Csisc)
No response yet.
Sailesh Patnaik (Saileshpat)
No response yet.
Dariusz Jemielniak (Pundit)
Apologies, if my automated translator-supported understanding of Swahili leads to a misunderstanding. So far, NEVER in the history of our movement has anyone outside of Northern America and Western Europe got elected. I am from Poland (Central Europe), which is a well doing country now (GDP per capita 4x bigger than that of Ukraine, 4x smaller than that of France), but I did have experience of living for 1 USD per day, as well as living in a totalitarian regime with censorship. As I have stated elsewhere, as a Board member I would like to animate Wikimedia Zero project, as well as focus on accessibility and fostering local communities, such as Wikimedia AZ (which, sadly, has withdrawn from the FDC process, but I hope it will get back in the next round).
Mohamed Ouda (Mohamed Ouda)
No response yet.
Josh Lim (Sky Harbor)
No response yet.
David Conway (Smerus)
No response yet.
Francis Kaswahili Kaguna (Francis Kaswahili)
No response yet.
Cristian Consonni (CristianCantoro)
No response yet.
Peter Gallert (Pgallert)
No response yet.
María Sefidari (Raystorm)
No response yet.
Phoebe Ayers (Phoebe)
No response yet.
Denny Vrandečić (Denny)
No response yet.
Ali Haidar Khan (Tonmoy) (Ali Haidar Khan)
No response yet.
Nisar Ahmed Syed (అహ్మద్ నిసార్)
No response yet.
James Heilman (Doc James)
My understanding of the question is incomplete due to having translated it with Google. Am working with the translation company Rubric out of South Africa to increase the amount of content we have in African languages. The key to success is bringing together partners with different expertise. We often struggle in African languages as volunteers are more difficult to find. We definitely need to trial efforts to increase the number of people involved. I have; however, made a few hundred edits on Swahili Wikipedia [1] and helped with the creation of a few dozen articles as listed here Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 12:27, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
Tim Davenport (Carrite)
No response yet.
Samuel Klein (Sj)
No response yet.
Syed Muzammiluddin (Hindustanilanguage)
No response yet.
Edward Saperia (EdSaperia)
No response yet.
Mike Nicolaije (Taketa)
No response yet.
How will you expand Wikipedia for the billion users in Poor Countries?
Many candidates have said that they will help or work more with users outside of Europe and North America and since less than 20% of humanity lives in Europe and North America that sounds like a good goal. Still, what exactly will you do to benefit the 50% of human beings on earth who are under the age of 28 and live in non-Europe and North American countries? Thank you in advance for your responses.Monopoly31121993 (talk) 11:12, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
Houcemeddine Turki (Csisc)
No response yet.
Sailesh Patnaik (Saileshpat)
No response yet.
Dariusz Jemielniak (Pundit)
As I have stated before, I find it really unfortunate that all Board members elected so far are from North America and Western Europe. I'm distinguishing Western Europe from CEE countries, as the latter have experienced poverty, totalitarian regimes, travel and communication restrictions, censorship, as well as war - and even though in terms of economic development they are currently much better off, the memory remains (and having actual experience of living for 1 USD per day, or of being afraid of what you say in public, or of looking up to the West with awe and jealousy, does increase one's sensitivity to the issues of the people in Poor Countries you're asking about). One of my priorities is helping Wikimedia Zero develop. I also believe that partnering with local organizations of Wikimedia activists is the way to go (rather than setting up "professional" organizations driven from San Francisco, which at least on two occasions didn't work). According to my research, that I am going to present on Wikimania, quality standards and perceptions across projects differ significantly - I want to increase our understanding of these processes, to let smaller projects set their own priorities. As a Board member I would strongly promote focusing also on communities outside of the English language zone. I find it awkward that many of the tools available on en-wiki (ProveIt, Twinkle, etc.), are not propagated at a fraction of their development cost to other projects. Also, I believe that WMF, whenever they try to learn from community's experience, has to make an effort to reach to communities outside of their immediate vicinity, and that it is important to draw especially from communities that are outside of the Western bubble. As a university (full) professor, I hope that WMF would reach out to Academia in different countries and support Wikipedia development this way, especially in the non-Western countries (I have made my own attempts in this respect, but as a Board member I will be able to do much more). Apart from the issues I've mentioned, one of the problems we're seriously facing now is operating in a reality, where most of our users are young people, often outside of the West, who rely on their mobile devices heavily - we don't really have good content for mobiles yet, and our fundraiser relies on the desktop version. So all in all we not only are not benefiting people outside of the West well enough, we're also all cutting the branch we're sitting on.
Mohamed Ouda (Mohamed Ouda)
No response yet.
Josh Lim (Sky Harbor)
No response yet.
David Conway (Smerus)
No response yet.
Francis Kaswahili Kaguna (Francis Kaswahili)
No response yet.
Cristian Consonni (CristianCantoro)
No response yet.
Peter Gallert (Pgallert)
No response yet.
María Sefidari (Raystorm)
No response yet.
Phoebe Ayers (Phoebe)
No response yet.
Denny Vrandečić (Denny)
No response yet.
Ali Haidar Khan (Tonmoy) (Ali Haidar Khan)
No response yet.
Nisar Ahmed Syed (అహ్మద్ నిసార్)
No response yet.
James Heilman (Doc James)
I have been working to improve Wikipedia's medical coverage in collaboration with 100s of volunteers from around the world in many languages for years per this effort. Recently Andrew West and I look at just how much medical content there was in different languages and I agree it is less than ideal.[2] Many languages have little or no health content on key topics.
I am working to change this and working to raise awareness regarding the issues. This morning for example we had a blog post published by the London School of Economics.
One effort I would love to see increased is collaborations between Wikipedians and local medical schools. I believe that translation can be a great introduction for students to Wikipedia editing. As long as the students have excellent base content they do not need to worry about sourcing or copyright issues. The students also develop the skill of translation from English into the languages they will ultimately be using to practice medicine which will ultimately benefit their future patients. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 12:08, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
Tim Davenport (Carrite)
No response yet.
Samuel Klein (Sj)
No response yet.
Syed Muzammiluddin (Hindustanilanguage)
No response yet.
Edward Saperia (EdSaperia)
No response yet.
Mike Nicolaije (Taketa)
No response yet.
Unpaid internships
It appears that the WMF advertises unpaid intern positions. Do you approve of this practice? Didcot power station (talk) 18:12, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
Houcemeddine Turki (Csisc)
No response yet.
Sailesh Patnaik (Saileshpat)
No response yet.
Dariusz Jemielniak (Pundit)
No response yet.
Mohamed Ouda (Mohamed Ouda)
No response yet.
Josh Lim (Sky Harbor)
No response yet.
David Conway (Smerus)
No response yet.
Francis Kaswahili Kaguna (Francis Kaswahili)
No response yet.
Cristian Consonni (CristianCantoro)
No response yet.
Peter Gallert (Pgallert)
No response yet.
María Sefidari (Raystorm)
No response yet.
Phoebe Ayers (Phoebe)
No response yet.
Denny Vrandečić (Denny)
No response yet.
Ali Haidar Khan (Tonmoy) (Ali Haidar Khan)
No response yet.
Nisar Ahmed Syed (అహ్మద్ నిసార్)
No response yet.
James Heilman (Doc James)
No response yet.
Tim Davenport (Carrite)
No response yet.
Samuel Klein (Sj)
No response yet.
Syed Muzammiluddin (Hindustanilanguage)
No response yet.
Edward Saperia (EdSaperia)
No response yet.
Mike Nicolaije (Taketa)
No response yet.
Term Limits for Board Seats
What are your opinions on term limits for Board members, such that Board members may serve a maximum of, say, two or three terms (4 or 6 years)? I understand the need to have stability in the Board and so perhaps term limits could be excluded for the 'Board-appointed' members, but do you believe that such limits should exist for the community-elected and chapter-selected seats? I'm certain that this question (or a discussion relating to it) has been asked before, but I can't seem to find previous discussions at present. Template:BoardChart summarises the current history of Board membership. Thehelpfulone 21:23, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
Houcemeddine Turki (Csisc)
No response yet.
Sailesh Patnaik (Saileshpat)
No response yet.
Dariusz Jemielniak (Pundit)
No response yet.
Mohamed Ouda (Mohamed Ouda)
No response yet.
Josh Lim (Sky Harbor)
No response yet.
David Conway (Smerus)
No response yet.
Francis Kaswahili Kaguna (Francis Kaswahili)
No response yet.
Cristian Consonni (CristianCantoro)
No response yet.
Peter Gallert (Pgallert)
No response yet.
María Sefidari (Raystorm)
No response yet.
Phoebe Ayers (Phoebe)
No response yet.
Denny Vrandečić (Denny)
No response yet.
Ali Haidar Khan (Tonmoy) (Ali Haidar Khan)
No response yet.
Nisar Ahmed Syed (అహ్మద్ నిసార్)
No response yet.
James Heilman (Doc James)
No response yet.
Tim Davenport (Carrite)
No response yet.
Samuel Klein (Sj)
No response yet.
Syed Muzammiluddin (Hindustanilanguage)
No response yet.
Edward Saperia (EdSaperia)
No response yet.
Mike Nicolaije (Taketa)
No response yet.