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Wikipedia:Featured portal candidates/Featured log/July 2009

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured portal candidate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the portal's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured portal candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The portal was promoted by OhanaUnited 02:57, 5 July 2009 [1].

Portal:Opera

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Co-nomination: (Shoemaker's Holiday, Cirt, and Voceditenore). After a previous, failed nomination, this has been redone top to bottom. Notably, dozens of articles have been brought up to GA or better, we've gained about 10 additional featured pictures through a picture drive, and the layout has had a complete going-over by Cirt. We believe that this now meets all the criteria, and serves as an excellent introduction to high-quality content on opera.

It has an active WikiProject behind it, so the numbers of articles, biographies, pictures, and sounds will continue to increase over time. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 13:30, 10 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Notified: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Contemporary music, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Arts, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Theatre, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Classical music, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Richard Wagner, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Gilbert and Sullivan. Cirt (talk) 20:28, 11 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Very well built portal (meets FPC) with excellent content and rotation. Maybe revamp Portal:Arts next? Only "Associated Wikimedia" needs to be redone as several links go nowhere useful. feydey (talk) 11:31, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Hmm. I could try... Would you be interested in joining me? There's literally hundreds of FPs, FSes, and so on we really ought to include in it. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 17:49, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • I don't think feydey means categorizing all the stuff on Commons. That link's OK. The problem is with these links: Opera on Wikinews, Opera on Wikibooks, and Opera on Wikiversity. They default to an assumed page on those media projects titled "Opera" when in fact there is none. Opera on Wikiquote is OK (it has a page) and Opera on Wikisource is OK because it already links to the search results on "opera". Opera on Wiktionary is sort of OK - it links to a redirect page to a definition of er... Opera. I'd suggest replacing the default links for the 3 "go nowhere" with ones to search results, e.g.
Opera on Wikinews: http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=Opera&fulltext=Search
Opera on Wikibooks: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Special:Search/Opera
Opera on Wikiversity: http://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=Opera&fulltext=Search
- Voceditenore (talk) 04:53, 18 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I thought he was talking about Portal:Arts (which is what I was talking about =). Took a little ingenuity, but I've implemented your suggested links. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 06:43, 18 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I made the coding a little cleaner, it's all fixed now [2]. Cirt (talk) 19:51, 18 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Response: Generally the issues are with the shorter ones, the other longer ones are okay. As I generally take the text from the WP:LEADs of the articles themselves, the issue is with those articles themselves to be improved upon hopefully. Cirt (talk) 18:59, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree; it's a lot easier to expand the really short ones. Adding one or two more lines to the shortest ones should do it. It just looks glaring when there are length differences of 2x or greater. --Jh12 (talk) 19:25, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Generally I don't think that's such a big deal - again I go by the WP:LEADs, of those articles at present, and also sometimes it is nice to have that bit of extra dynamism in the portal. Cirt (talk) 19:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Response: I've now slightly expanded Portal:Opera/Selected biography/3 and Portal:Opera/Selected article/13 to redress the balance. I could also easily trim slightly the rather long and wordy ones, e.g. Portal:Opera/Selected article/12, and especially Portal:Opera/Selected biography/6 and Portal:Opera/Selected biography/4. It would probably improve their readability in the confined space of a portal. I would agree with Cirt, though, that a bit of variation in "shape" can add dynamism. Voceditenore (talk) 06:53, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the help Voceditenore (talk · contribs)! Cirt (talk) 06:56, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've trimmed Portal:Opera/Selected biography/4, Portal:Opera/Selected biography/6, and Portal:Opera/Selected article/12. I tried to keep all the basic facts, but reduced the amount of commentary on them. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 07:01, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support It's a personal preference more than anything. Two reasons I like standardized entries are 1. For technical reasons, the boxes will align better and there's less chance of large white spaces 2. Extremely short leads may not introduce an article adequately. Anyway, fantastic work! I appreciate the effort. --Jh12 (talk) 07:34, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support with a few suggestions from [sd] 19:55, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Add {{Browsebar}} at the beginning, e.g. the Internet portal.
    • Selected biography: Update I and XIII with the dates of birth and death.
    • Introduction: Can you find a better photograph for II? The current one is good but unclear, in my opinion.
    • Opera topics: In my opinion, the word Opera is not needed; instead, I'd suggest Main topics or Major topics. Also, I think the link to the opera article should be removed, because (i) it's been linked to several times above and (ii) it is centered but doesn't line up correctly with the box title (Opera topics).
      Done. Addressed all of these above points by Sd31415 (talk · contribs), thanks, they were all good suggestions. :) Cirt (talk) 21:08, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
The following is an archived discussion of a featured portal candidate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the portal's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured portal candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The portal was promoted by OhanaUnited 02:57, 5 July 2009 [3].

Portal:Finger Lakes

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Co-nomination: (Cirt and Mitchazenia). See archived peer review (notified relevant WikiProjects, but only got one comment, oh well). Stats: 15 selected articles, 10 selected biographies, 11 selected pictures, 14 selected lakes (the Finger Lakes), 13 selected attractions, 40 featured pictures, 37 additional selected pictures, 12 sets of rotating DYK hooks, and an automatically rotating In this month section. I believe the portal meets the standards for Featured Portal status. Cirt (talk) 15:38, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Notified: Talk:Finger Lakes, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Lakes, and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject New York. Cirt (talk) 20:23, 11 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Support after review, needs some work with captions. feydey (talk) 11:52, 26 May 2009 (UTC) In summary: fails FPC 1a. The content is very remotely connected to the topic, having a bird's picture with the caption: "The Northern Mockingbird (Mimus polyglottos) is the only mockingbird commonly found in North America" used on the portal misses the the portal's core. Why 2 picture boxes? While well built it is not FP useful, to get FP it needs to focus on the core topics on the issue. feydey (talk) 10:22, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Responses from Cirt to Feydey (addressed)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
  • Suggestion I am a bit inclined to agree, I fear: If you're going to include images of wildlife of the region (a reasonable choice), particularly when it isn't necessarily photographed in the region, it needs to be put under the caption "Wildlife found in the Finger Lakes area" or "Selected wildlife found in the region". Otherwise, it's misleading and off-topic. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 16:46, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Response to Feydey: Wildlife featured picture section removed [4]. Cirt (talk) 18:39, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. The problem isn't simply one image, but the whole portal's content. In the SA list only 2 have actually Finger Lakes linked; what has "A shield for U.S. Route 20 outside of Skaneateles" picture do with FL, or pic of a lighthouse, Oswego Light, that is actually in Lake Ontario? I guess the portal could be named "Finger Lakes and the surrounding counties" with current content. feydey (talk) 19:06, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
These all relate to the Finger Lakes region. Cirt (talk) 19:07, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Then the intro needs to be clarified, about what area is considered to be FL region. feydey (talk) 19:35, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
How would you suggest clarifying this? Could you provide some suggested wording? Cirt (talk) 19:50, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comments by Shoemaker's Holiday (addressed)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Detailed review: Shoemaker's Holiday

Going section-by-section:

In all cases but Portal:Finger Lakes/Selected biography/10, the information showing the connection to the Finger Lakes is there, but requires a knowledge of what towns are in the Finger Lakes area to figure out what part connects to them. Millard Fillmore - #10 - Certainly was connected, but the next sentence of the article, "Fillmore was born in a log cabin in Cayuga County in the Finger Lakes region of New York State" was not included in the sample text. ✗ Fail, if weakly.
  • Selected picture: Would benefit greatly from lengthier, more detailed captions. ✗ Fail
  • Did you know? Portal:Finger Lakes/DYK has the instructions, "Only include completed sets of 3." - however, all sets given are, in fact, sets of two. One of these needs to change. ✗ Fail ✓ Pass
  • In this month Generally speaking, could use more explicit descriptions. For instance, it's somewhat odd that "January 7, 1800 - Birth of Millard Fillmore, thirteenth President of the United States" fails to mention he was born in the Finger Lakes region. ✗ Fail
  • Wikiprojects, Categories, Quality content, Topics, Things you can do ✓ Pass. Though "Things you can do" may be a maintenance nightmare.

On the whole: This is very close, but needs a little more work to pull it all together. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 19:11, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

For the reord, I believe all are fixed now. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 19:58, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks very much. Cirt (talk) 21:37, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Help addressing these above points would be most appreciated. Cirt (talk) 19:19, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Response to points raised above by Shoemaker's Holiday
  • Selected biography
Portal:Finger Lakes/Selected biography/1
These was added to the portal originally by Shoemaker's Holiday (talk · contribs) (see history)
Portal:Finger Lakes/Selected biography/4
This was added to the portal originally by Shoemaker's Holiday (talk · contribs) (see history)
Portal:Finger Lakes/Selected biography/6
This was added to the portal originally by Shoemaker's Holiday (talk · contribs) (see history)
Portal:Finger Lakes/Selected biography/7
This was added to the portal originally by Shoemaker's Holiday (talk · contribs) (see history)
Portal:Finger Lakes/Selected biography/8
This was added to the portal originally by Shoemaker's Holiday (talk · contribs) (see history)
Portal:Finger Lakes/Selected biography/9
This was added to the portal originally by Shoemaker's Holiday (talk · contribs) (see history)
Portal:Finger Lakes/Selected biography/10 = Done.

Comment on above Selected biography issues: Help from Shoemaker's Holiday (talk · contribs) addressing the points he raised about these entries he added to the portal would be most appreciated.

  • Selected picture: There are forty selections currently used. They are all directly related to the Finger Lakes region.
  • In this month - Respectfully disagree that every single entry has to have the phrase "Finger Lakes" in it. This becomes overly repetitive and unnecessary - the entries all relate to the Finger Lakes region.

Cirt (talk) 19:48, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Already at Finger_lakes_region#Region. Cirt (talk) 20:20, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Responses from Cirt to Feydey (addressed)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
  • Comment - Intro images: The Intro now prominently has only maps of the Finger Lakes region, displayed as such: Portal:Finger Lakes/Intro/Image. This will help to make it clear what region the portal encompasses. Cirt (talk) 20:24, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Intro text: In response to above comments by Feydey (talk · contribs), I added text to the intro identifying the lakes and counties included in the Finger Lakes region. See [5]. Cirt (talk) 20:47, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment. The map is good (add it to the article's page too?) and the counties in the intro, perhaps mention some major towns and cities of the area? After looking at the Long Island article I'm willing to let go of some of the issues concerning the portal's reach. I'll review later after the response to the issues raised by Shoemaker's Holiday. feydey (talk) 21:00, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • In response to this suggestion from Feydey (talk · contribs) I have added some text to the intro about towns/cities of the area [6]. The map is already included in the article Finger Lakes. Cirt (talk) 21:04, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments by Jh12
Due to the nature of this portal, I can understand using sub-GA articles but you're going to want to change the Instructions under Portal:Finger Lakes/Selected attraction, Portal:Finger Lakes/Selected article, and Portal:Finger Lakes/Selected biography to reflect that. For example the article under Portal:Finger Lakes/Selected article/8 is rated Start-class, Portal:Finger Lakes/Selected attraction/1 is rated Stub, and Portal:Finger Lakes/Selected biography/10 is B even though the Instructions say the articles listed are GA or FA. --Jh12 (talk) 08:01, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Response: Fixed. Cirt (talk) 08:08, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
All the articles you mention are pretty clear B's, and one's actually a GA. Are you sure you got the links right? Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 20:26, 26 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That is because I have fixed it, as I noted, above. :P Cirt (talk) 21:37, 26 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Like Shoemaker's comment above, I think the portal "Would benefit greatly from lengthier, more detailed captions." In particular, it could use expansion of the captions to further explain significance to the Finger Lakes region and/or something interesting about the selections. For example, Portal:Finger Lakes/Selected picture/21 says "A tower of 600 bowls on [sic?] glass at the Corning Museum of Glass." That doesn't seem very interesting to me; more compelling is that the article says the museum "is home to the world’s most comprehensive collection of glass" and that it's in "one of the most prominent glassmaking towns in America." --Jh12 (talk) 03:19, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, that info is not really sourced to secondary sources in the article, which is why we went with simply descriptive of the image itself, as opposed to the subject in the article. Cirt (talk) 03:47, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not going to oppose based on this aspect of the portal, but I still think it is something that can be worked on. If the more outstanding facts can't be sourced, the captions could include basic information such as location, population, or other context. Going back to Portal:Finger Lakes/Selected picture/21, it could read "A tower of 600 glass bowls at the Corning Museum of Glass. Founded in 1950 by Corning Glass Works (now Corning Incorporated), the museum is located in the Finger Lakes region of New York and houses a research library devoted to glass." I just think some of the captions are still weak compared to some of the recently promoted portals Portal:Peru/Selected picture, Portal:Brazil/Selected picture/Archives, and Portal:Japan/Selected picture --Jh12 (talk) 10:26, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I fixed that one per your suggestion [7]. As for the others, as I said already, above, I believe that Shoemaker's Holiday (talk · contribs) had gone through and improved the captions on those, but I will go through and have another look. Cirt (talk) 10:35, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: Good job. I have a few minor suggestions that I'd like to see addressed. [sd] 15:50, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Introduction: The fourteen lakes located in the Finger Lakes region include: The word include suggests there are more lakes than the fourteen you list.
    • Related Portals: Portals should be portals to follow the rules of capitalization you used in the rest of the portal.
    • Things you can do: You use both WikiProject Lakes and Lakes WikiProject. I'd recommend using sticking to WikiProject Lakes, since you use that wording for another box.
    • Topics: Is this section necessary? You list all of these articles in the introduction and again have the county names in the box for categories, which brings me to…
    • Categories: Shouldn't this category also be there?
    • In this month: e.g. June 2007 - Change the hyphens to en dashes (–), which the featured Germany portal use as well.
    • Selected picture: Two of the pictures, namely Ithaca Falls and Glenora Wine Cellars, don't have articles, so I can't read more about them. I'd recommend either you or members of WikiProject New York to start articles on them.
      Everything addressed except for the last one, as I don't have the experience for those two. I will request them for you though :) - 3 1/2 years of Mitch32 16:10, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      Great. Thanks, [sd] 19:16, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      Thank you to Mitchazenia (talk · contribs) for addressing those points. :) Cirt (talk) 21:02, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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