Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Christian music

Request for input in discussion forum

Given the closely linked subjects of the various religion, mythology, and philosophy groups, it seems to me that we might benefit from having some sort of regular topical discussion forum to discuss the relevant content. I have put together the beginnings of an outline for such discussion at Wikipedia:WikiProject Religion/2011 meeting, and would very much appreciate the input of any interested editors. I am thinking that it might run over two months, the first of which would be to bring forward and discuss the current state of the content, and the second for perhaps some more focused discussion on what, if any, specific efforts might be taken in the near future. Any and all input is more than welcome. John Carter (talk)

_{Automated message by Project Messenger Bot from John Carter at 15:44, 5 April 2011}

So there's a resource....

Hello friends. I have a story to tell. Long ago, I wrote bunches of articles here, ranging from bands to eventually big topics like Christian music industry and Christian music festival. Over time while doing research for numerous articles, I realized that even where resources were already available, finding specific references inside of them was not an easy task.

For instance, if you had all 30 years of CCM magazine in front of you, you still couldn't write effectively about Andrae Crouch. Trouble is, it's too much to look through, and you don't specifically know where it is, etc. Second, While building pages like WP:CCM/S I came to realize that there were numerous smaller resources which could offer a unique perspective, but were next to impossible to find without a guide or way too wasted time. Finally, obscure topics were next to impossible to research properly. Christian ska, for instance, spend over a year in various stages of research before seeing the light of day.

What was really needed was a new resource, one that would simplify research where such sources were available. Since I have a background in programming, I figured that I could make it happen. Check out what I've been working on at the CMnexus.

Dan, the CowMan (talk) 00:16, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Has this project died? Dan, the CowMan (talk) 19:01, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

No but most WikiProjects aren't as active as they were a few years ago. I wish you good luck with your website! Royalbroil 03:25, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

User:DantheCowMan since nobody ever thanked you for this, I've found this resource to be invaluable in working on articles, specifically finding stuff from CCM Magazine and Charisma. So kudos for this! Toa Nidhiki05 00:59, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Goals

Hello,

I am really like to help you with translation in French of your articles for the French Christian community.

I am already translating the article about Plus One.

Blessing,
Laurent Franky-68

Red Letters

I just saw that there is an article for "Red Letters", a song by Crowder. I know that there isn't an article or even a redirect, but shouldn't there be some kind of disambiguation for the identically-named song by dc Talk? It was featured on WOW 1999. Morriswa (Charlotte Allison) (talk) 05:31, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

A new newsletter directory is out!

A new Newsletter directory has been created to replace the old, out-of-date one. If your WikiProject and its taskforces have newsletters (even inactive ones), or if you know of a missing newsletter (including from sister projects like WikiSpecies), please include it in the directory! The template can be a bit tricky, so if you need help, just post the newsletter on the template's talk page and someone will add it for you.

– Sent on behalf of Headbomb. 03:11, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

FA nomination for Almost There

Almost There (album) article is up for featured article status. As a significant (high-importance) article in this WikiProject, any and all project members are invited to comment on or review the nomination and help see if it fits the featured article criteria. Toa Nidhiki05 22:31, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

As I Lay Dying (band)

Hi guys,

So I started an individual GA reassessment on this in-a-way Christian metalcore band's article nine months ago...yeah, you can say I got distracted, ahaha. I managed to let a whole season from my favorite hockey team come and go by before I finished the halfway done review. Anyway, I was reminded in March, and it had been bugging me at the back of my mind until today when I found time to do it. I have completed the reassessment and I am willing to keep it open a good long while - like a month - for improvements (it's only fair since I did accordingly). I am letting everyone know immediately, since there does seem to be a hefty chunk of work that needs to be done in addition to what I've already fixed, although I believe saving it is possibly feasible. Please let me know, either here or on the article's talk page, if you're interested in putting some work in. Thanks for your attention! dannymusiceditor ^oops 03:23, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Reminder: FA nomination for Almost There (album)

Just a reminder to anyone interested: the article for Almost There (album) is up for featured article status. This is a high-importance article in this WikiProject and one of the best-selling Christian records of all time so, any and all project members are invited to comment on or review the nomination and help see if it fits the featured article criteria. The nomination is starting to lose attention and might be archived soon, so any comments are appreciated! Toa Nidhiki05 16:04, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Christian music for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Christian music is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Christian music until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 23:14, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

Found some of the CCM Magazine Chart archives (from August 1995 on)

Prior to Radio and Records publishing the Christian music charts, CCM Magazine did. They did not do this in their monthly magazine, but in a side magazine called The CCM Update. Most of these charts are essentially lost, outside of if you happened to subscribe to the magazine or if you own one of the two Hot Hits books, which only covered the AC and CHR charts.

After some digging I’ve managed to find a small archive of this publication, stretching from May 29, 2000 to the creation of the R&R chart. The archive can be found here. Unfortunately, only the top 10 songs for each week are shown (I assume the print version would showcase the entire chart) but it does include the four major CCM charts:

• Adult Contemporary (the predecessor of the R&R and Billboard AC charts)
• CHR (the predecessor of the R&R and Billboard CHR charts)
• Inspirational (the predecessor of the R&R and Billboard Soft AC/INSPO chart, which is now defunct)
• Rock (the predecessor of the R&R and Billboard Christian rock chart, which is now defunct)

The links on the archive page show the number-one single each week. Clicking on any of the chart names shows the entire top ten for all charts. The Christian rock chart only published bi-weekly (every other week), and is absent in the odd weekends between the chart reveal. The other 3 charts were published every weekend. Toa Nidhiki05 15:37, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

UPDATE: I found it! This is a more substantial archive that goes all the way back to August 1995. This covers the entirety of the gap for Hot Hits CHR, which only went up to 1997. I am not sure if all of the links here work but it’s better than nothing! This also includes a chart I’ve never heard of before - the Country Christian chart, published bi-weekly! These charts only include the top 5 singles. Toa Nidhiki05 18:26, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Additional source: the decade-end AC charts for the 1990s. 100 songs in total. Toa Nidhiki05 12:21, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Some changes to Wikipedia:WikiProject Christian music/Sources

I realize this project is mostly dead outside of a handful of committed editors, but figured I'd note some changes made to Wikipedia:WikiProject Christian music/Sources - an excellent resource page that is kind of hidden on the front page to be honest:

1. Added a link to CMnexus, a phenomenal resource for finding Christian music articles. While you still need to manually look for them, it gives a great look of the names and dates of articles, making it easy to find coverage of groups and albums.
2. Overhauled the charts section. The section on CCM Magazine charts now correctly attributes them to The CCM Update. I've listed all five charts (CHR, AC, Inspriational, Rock, and Country) as well as guidance on usage (reliable before the creation of comparable Radio & Records charts). I've also included the link to the minimal online archive, as well as a note that The Encyclopedia of Contemporary Christian Music has a limited history of the CHR chart. I have this book on order so I'll see if it's true or not.
3. Provided accurate beginning and ending dates for Radio & Records and Billboard charts, as well as guidance on finding the information for R&R and lesser Billboard charts. Unfortunately, Billboard has ended the longstanding Soft AC/INSPO and Christian rock charts, and I have adjusted it to recognize that fact.

I would like to make a few other proposed changes:

1. Removing The Rock Across Australia. I don't know if this is a countdown chart or what, but it basically exists only on a facebook page.
2. Advice on Cross Rhythms charts. Cross Rhythms itself is highly notable, but are the charts actually real or are they simply taken from a single radio station? If it is real and not a WP:BADCHART, it should be incorporated more into articles. Their charts are quirky and sometimes include crossover or secular artists like Paramore (who have charted year-end in 2014, 2015, 2017, and 2018), so it's a nice addition to our normal ones, if they are legit.

I'm currently trying to find any way to access the old CCM Update charts, which would make it much easier to accurately reflect artist discographies. I've had little luck so far but I'll note any more updates. Toa Nidhiki05 02:29, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

It looked good. I don't see any problems with your suggested changes either. As for Cross Rhythms, they have a very broad definition of what constitues Christian music. They are more open than True Tunes or Harvest Rock Syndicate. Thanks for your work on this. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:40, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Featured article nomination for Almost There (album)

I’ve renominated Almost There (album), a high-importance article in this project, for Wikipedia:Featured article. Any editors are welcome to add to the discussion at the nomination page. Toa Nidhiki05 13:18, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

Acquired the Encyclopedia of Contemporary Chrsitian Music with CD

If anyone needs anything on an entry in this book, I'm available. A quick look has found it to be extensively researched with a wealth of useful information for pre-internet era contemporary Christian music - it also includes (most) chart positions on the CHR chart from 1978 to 2002. If there's a discography that needs references or work, let me know. I also have the AC Hot Hits book for citations, so this collectively is about 99% of the two major CCM charts. I and am actively looking the out-of-print CHR one if anyone has it and is willing to sell. Toa Nidhiki05 00:58, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

@Toa Nidhiki05: is the book Powell, Mark Allan (2002). Encyclopedia of Contemporary Christian Music. Peabody, Massachusetts: Hendrickson Publishers. ISBN 1-56563-679-1.? If so, I have it as well. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:14, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

Yep, it’s that one. Toa Nidhiki05 13:03, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

Sweet. Then <ref>{{cite book |last=Powell |first=Mark Allan |title=Encyclopedia of Contemporary Christian Music |publisher=Hendrickson Publishers |year=2002 |location=Peabody, Massachusetts |isbn=1-56563-679-1 |page=}}</ref> is how you add it. if it's used repeatedly, I use name="EofCCM" when adding it. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:45, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, even came with the CD and I was able to get the PDF untethered from the CD, so I have a searchable PDF file of the entire book. Gonna be invaluable in the future. I'm going to start fixing some artist discography pages - unfortunately we lack the Inspirational or Rock charts, which leaves some artists (like dc Talk with the Rock chart or Phillips, Craig & Dean with the Inspirational chart) shortchanged, but it's better than nothing and AC and CHR are and always have been the two major charts. Toa Nidhiki05 23:04, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

Created new subsection for The CCM Update on the CCM Magazine page

Information can be found at the CCM Magazine page and others are welcome to add information as needed. The CCM Update published the primary CCM charts for over two decades; in chart history tables or in mentions, the charts should be attributed to The CCM Update, not CCM Magazine, for CCM charts after May 1983, when the publications split. This covers the AC, CHR, Inspirational, Rock, and Country charts. Toa Nidhiki05 01:21, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Steven Curtis Chapman discography/archive1

I've nominated Steven Curtis Chapman discography for featured article. Chapman is one of the most successful figures in CCM history and his discography is extensive, so this was a major undertaking; here's a link to the nomination if anyone is interesting in commenting on the nomination to resolve any details in what will hopefully be the first of many featured list discographies for legacy artists here. Toa Nidhiki05 01:41, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Some good news and some bad news

After extensive internet sleuthing, I’ve acquired a complete database of every single song to have charted on every chart published by CCM Magazine and The CCM Update from 1978 to 2001. This covers the four historically major charts (AC, CHR, Inspirational, and Rock) as well as the defunct Country, Southern Gospel, and Bluegrass (listed as “BG”, which is why I’m assuming its bluegrass) charts. After examining the entries they seem to line up completely with my own research on the topic (including chart frames that I know exist for the rock and CHR charts) as well as the information featured in Hot Hits, so I am confident this is a completely authoritative resource on the subject.

Now, the bad news - this is no located on a website. It’s a Microsoft Access file that I have since converted to an Excel file. I’m going to contact CCM Magazine and see if they’d be interested in starting a database on their website using the information - assuming that fails (which it likely will), I may purchase my own domain and republish this information, or just give the chart numbers to anyone who is interested. Toa Nidhiki05 19:51, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

The database would be a good resource. Let us know how the publisher approaches the discussion. Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:09, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

I’ve sent them a message via their website. Hopefully I’ll hear back and be able to work something out. This is really invaluable stuff and I am hopeful they’ll be open to some kind of arrangement. Toa Nidhiki05 20:22, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Classic Christian Charts is under construction

Happy to announce I've started work on Classic Christian Charts, which will include the entire chart archive I've found. Here's a sample post of what this is going to look like - it has the entire AC chart history in web PDF and Excel form.

• Adult Contemporary (1978-2002)

I'll be getting a full domain name once I've finished the website. My goal for right now is to get all 8 major charts (Adult Contemporary, CHR, Inspirational, and Rock as well as County, Metal, Black Gospel, and Southern Gospel) uploaded. For now I would advise not citing to this, if it's even to be deemed reliable - although by my quick check of certain artists, it seems to be very accurate. I have not heard back from CCM Magazine about publishing this, unfortunately, so this website seems like the best way to try. Toa Nidhiki05 02:03, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Just so you know I've not forgotten about this, I think I'm going to shift to an eBook model. I've started work on a Christian rock eBook similar to the Hot Hits book and hopefully can make ones for all of the charts, so the information can be easily found online. Toa Nidhiki05 02:14, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

The book is finished and should be published on Amazon through the Kindle store in the next few days. Nominal price is probably going to be $0.99-$2.99 for now and it will have an eBook and paperback option. I'll post a link here when it's up. Toa Nidhiki05 20:47, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

Michael W. Smith discography nominated for featured article

I've nominated Michael W. Smith discography, a top-importance article under this project's purview, for featured list. For anyone interested, any and all comments are welcome. Toa Nidhiki05 00:02, 15 July 2019 (UTC)