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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 81.110.104.91 (talk) at 16:51, 30 September 2009 (→‎Proposal). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion

Shouldn't there be a link to Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion somewhere in Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Deletion review section? If someone could incorporate that somehow into the text I believe it may be useful.. unless we purposely don't want to draw attention to the undeletion page? -- Ϫ 23:05, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done. - 2/0 (cont.) 17:07, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! Protonk (talk) 17:46, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes it's good to get the information out there that this page exists, however maybe it's not such a good idea for it to draw too much attention. We don't want every person who starts an article about their garage band thinking they have a right to get their page undeleted just by posting a request. Also, some may view it as a waste of time and effort to restore articles that were never meant for Wikipedia. Personally I think it's a nice gesture and may help attract and keep new editors, however I strongly suggest that editors involved in this page don't accept requests to undelete articles that were clearly only meant as a means for promotion of their band/company/self etc. but instead direct them to Deletionpedia. -- Ϫ 21:31, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. We do want everyone to know that they can get material undeleted if it was deleted via PROD or G7 or G6 (and so on). If some set of users has a problem with reading comprehension and posts a bunch of requests to undelete A7s and G11/12s then we will deal with the influx. But I feel that we need a low stress low overhead process to undelete material and that advertising such a process is not a problem. Protonk (talk) 21:52, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The admins who work at WP:REFUND don't accept all requests by any means. Right now, about half get rejected. Most of the ones that get accepted are either because it was unclear that it met the CSD criteria, or there's a good faith assertion that the article will be worked on and brought up to snuff in user space before being moved back. (And in one recent case, where it became clear that the article wasn't moving anywhere close to notability, the userfied article was brought to MfD quickly and re-deleted.) As Protonk said, this provides new editors, who may not be comfortable asking the deleting admin to restore an article and may not feel up to navigating the complexities of DRV, a low stress way to quickly get an answer, some guidance, and possibly a restoration of the article.--Fabrictramp | talk to me 23:37, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ah well, as long as the admins use a fair amount of discretion (which I'm sure they do) and focus only on productive editors and high-potential articles I have no problem with it. BTW, I also added a link to WP:REFUND at WP:Requests but I was unsure which section to place it in. Wikipedia:Why was my page deleted? also now has a link to WP:REFUND. That should be enough I think. -- Ϫ 05:06, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see where productive editors or high potential articles enters in to the decision making process, honestly. Protonk (talk) 05:24, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well because! What's the point otherwise? How are you helping the project by restoring articles that should not be and never will be on Wikipedia from editors that don't care about improving Wikipedia?? Obviously the article or the editor must have some worth in order for you to restore it for them right? It defeats the purpose of deletion otherwise. -- Ϫ 00:02, 12 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think you fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of wikipedia and of deletion. First of all, any article can be edited by anyone, so it doesn't matter if I think the "author" has worth. Second, my very limited understanding of the world is not meant to be a stand-in for the principle that local subject matter experts will improve articles so long as we do not interfere with them. The purpose of deletion is to remove from the encyclopedia articles whose subjects do not meet the guidelines for inclusion or articles which do not meet our scope. Apart from that fairly narrow remit, deletion is not a preferred route. Protonk (talk) 00:17, 12 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There's obviously some kind of misunderstanding going on here but I assure you it's not me. -- Ϫ 03:58, 12 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Do tell. Protonk (talk) 06:42, 12 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn't matter, the point is moot. Any user creating a worthless article will most likely not be requesting for it to be undeleted anyways, unless they want to be disruptive, in which case they're clearly trolling. -- Ϫ 17:08, 12 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Nominating an article for deletion when a different article with the same name has been nominated and deleted before

I have a question: What should be done to nominate an article for deletion if an essentially different article with the same name has been nominated and deleted before -- meaning that the "Articles for deletion" page already exists and is an archive which it says not to modify? Should the archive be replaced with the "new" AfD page? If not, then what? Angel Cupid (talk) 08:51, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Create a 2nd (3rd, ...) nomination, and make it very clear in your nomination that the previous article and debate were about a different subject. The previous AfD should not be changed, renamed, ... in any way or shape. Fram (talk) 09:16, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose the additional nominations should, naturally, be on the same page, since it's the same name -- but clearly marked as different. Good idea; I should have thought of that first. Thank you. Angel Cupid (talk) 14:53, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No, no. Not the same page. You want to create a new page of the format [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/<PAGE NAME> (2nd nomination)]] (or 3rd etc.). This allows both easy tracking and the ability to transclude just the necessary page onto the daily AfD log page. Cheers. lifebaka++ 15:03, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. Thank you. Angel Cupid (talk) 00:11, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Userfication by non-admin new-page patrollers

There's a proposal to add a Twinkle option to userfy articles, to be used during new-page patrolling. This would basically encourage non-admin NPPers to userfy articles, and only leave an R2 tagged cross-namespace redirect. There are some open questions both about the criteria that should be applied before userfication, and whether it's desirable to encourage non-admin userfication in the first place. Your input would be valued at WT:TW#Adding userfication to Twinkle.
Amalthea 11:28, 14 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think there is a general agreement that articles should not be userfied without first getting agreement with the user. This would make it hard to automate. Chillum 20:46, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Venue choice for nominating disambiguation pages for deletion?

It happened again to me recently that I had to nominate a disambiguation page for deletion, and again was stumped in finding exactly where disambiguation pages go when you nominate them for deletion. Seriously, I can't find any place on many, many pages that specifically indicates where to nominate dab pages for deletion.

The way I see it, disambiguation pages could go two ways. One could list them at AFD, or one could list them in MFD. Technically, disambiguation pages are in the article namespace, but since they're also technically not articles, it seems inappropriate to nominate them there. MFD seems appropriate as well, since these are not articles, but also not categories, templates, or files.

I guess what I'm asking for is to (A) get a strong determination about just where dab pages are supposed to go for deletion discussions, and (B) codify that in a few deletion-related project pages. SchuminWeb (Talk) 00:27, 19 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is it okay for a nominator of an AFD to !vote and nominate?

I recently challenged a AFD nominator because they had expressed their opinion in the nomination itself and during the discussion added a !vote for deletion with a slightly different argument. Is there part of the policy that covers this behaviour so I can formally clarify if it is okay or not?—Ash (talk) 19:46, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There's no reason why any person cannot continue to argue for whichever outcome they like. It is generally improper to place multiple "!votes", though, and if a person makes multiple bolded "keep" or "delete" (or other) comments, you may strike ones after the first. Cheers. lifebaka++ 20:10, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
So the nomination itself doesn't count as a "!vote"?—Ash (talk) 20:36, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
A nomination is like any other opinion, it should be "counted" once only and given a weight based on the quality of the arguments as they relate to relevant policy. Chillum 20:45, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It is my understanding is that the summary required in a deletion template is exactly that: a summary, ie a concise description of why the nomination has been put forth. The person making the nomination is allowed to expand and justify that nomination, and the proper place for this expansion is in the body of the discussion, not in the summary. Also, it is my understanding that discussion pages are set up to discuss the issue and reach a consensus, not to hold an election and get a majority ruling. Limiting any editor to a single comment is not a discussion, and prohibiting the person putting forth the nomination from making any contribution other than the nomination itself would be censorship. TechBear (talk) 21:35, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's fine. Some people do it because they aren't aware of the unspoken convention that the nomination represents a 'vote' unless explicitly stated otherwise. I don't think formal clarification is necessary. There are too many provisos and what not in this policy anyway, to say nothing of deletion process, AfD, AADD, and so forth. The only time someone needs to step in and say something is if an editor is 'voting' in a fashion that might confuse the closing admin (multiple bolded votes, repeated statement of the nomination text, etc.). Protonk (talk) 21:42, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Renaming of multiple categories, including one or more stub categories

Please express your opinion at Wikipedia talk:Deletion discussions#Renaming of multiple categories, including one or more stub categories. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 08:31, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal

MilbornOne posted an opinion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Aviation/Notability#Comment that articles should not be PRODded or nominated at AfD within 48 hours of creation. He was talking specifically about new articles on aircraft accidents. I see no reason why this should not extend to all articles. I fully agree that this would be a good idea. It gives those editors who do not follow the practice of creating articles in a sandbox the time to work on the article. An editor who finds a new article with problems can always raise the issue politely on the talk page of the creator. This proposal would not prevent an article being listed at CSD or prevent articles from being speedied where that is appropriate.

Therefore I'd like to ask what the consensus is for this proposal:-

{{PROD}} and {{AfD}} may not be placed on an article within 48 hours of the creation of the article. Mjroots (talk) 10:28, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Mjroots (talk) 10:28, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - The processes for saying 'hangon' or discussing at length in an AFD are pretty straightforward. If someone raises, for example, an obvious content fork then discussing this in an AFD shortly after creation seems entirely appropriate. The creator has plenty of time to discuss the matter and always has the option of using the {{construction}} in order to encourage discussion on the article talk page.—Ash (talk) 10:36, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. There are plenty of new pages that don't fit in the CSD categories, but where some searching shows that they don't fit in Wikipedia either. If these can't be prod'ded or AfD'ed in the first 48 hours, yo uare making the work of the new page patrollers much harder, since you need to separate CSD patrol (immediate, for attacks and so on) from prod/afD patrol (looking only at pages that are at least two days old). Now, a New Page Patroller can do both (and much more) at the same time. Some of these may be considered speedyable or otherwise solvable, but why would we not prod things like Leeds/draft, Compiling environment, Desk sockets (already prodded), Victor Antonio Torres (speedy A7?), On the Ball (TV show), ... Fram (talk) 10:54, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose in addition to the comments above, this would probably make it harder for the creator to contest the deletion. If the creator writes the article they might not log back in for weeks or months, so if the prod tag is placed 48 hours after creation they'll never see it. On the other hand if the tag is placed not long after the article is created they are much more likely to be around and to contest the deletion. Hut 8.5 11:10, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose As Fram said, there are plenty of articles that have no place in the encyclopedia that aren't speediable. If you eliminate prod as an option for pages that clearly have no encyclopedic potential, people will tag them with IAR speedies, either making CSD an insane asylum or wasting lots of gnome time while people remove the CSD tags, put it on a list to be prodded in two days, then prod the thing. If editors are tagging articles for deletion without following WP:BEFORE, call them out on it. They'll either start following WP:BEFORE or get so sick of the "you have new messages" bar that they won't prod at all. (This goes for CSD, prod and AfD.)--Fabrictramp | talk to me 13:58, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Great idea which if adopted will make the encylopedia more welcoming to new users, and encourage creativity. If an article doesnt qualify for CSD, it can wait two extra days before entering the non urgent deletion streams. Come on deletionists, you know they taste better if you give them a chance to grow! FeydHuxtable (talk) 16:42, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Somehow I'm not anxious to encourage creativity like "Foofraz is a great drinking game that's been played in my dorm for the last three years." There's no speedy category for this, and when my gsearch turns up 6 blog hits and nothing else, you want me to wait two more days before starting the prod/afd cycle, which will still take a minimum of 7 more days? How on earth is two more days going to make this into an encyclopedic article? And if it would, why not just make prod 9 days (remembering that not so long ago we added two days to prod and AfD ). --Fabrictramp | talk to me 17:10, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please note that I have proposed this before, (here) with...err...resounding opposition in response. Protonk (talk) 16:48, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • String support - if thwe article isn't covered by speedy deletion, give it a chance before requesting to have it deleted. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 17:40, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • As I said last year when Protonk proposed it, oppose for PROD, as PROD is (ideally) for uncontroversial deletions as is, and it seems pointless to add an extra two days to it. Meh for AfD, as the likelihood that adding two more days to the process is going to result in much improvement to the article that wouldn't already happen in a week is low. So, I kinda' oppose it to avoid being WP:CREEPy, but there isn't much other reason for me to oppose. Cheers. lifebaka++ 18:18, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment the original suggestion I made was related to aviation accidents when a high number of edits can be made related to a news event. These tend to be AfD or Prodded quickly before they have a chance to establish notability. This can end up with long discussions at AfD about not news etc while a wait of a few days could establish notability when events had settled. I understand the comments about enough time in the AfD process for the article to establish notability but these AfDs can attract a large number of opinions because of the current event interest. MilborneOne (talk) 19:45, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • support in principle but there need to be exceptions, for there are articles that do not fit into speedy policy but are appropriate for snow deletes after a few opinions have been collected. And , like Fram and Papyrus and Lifebaka said, I don't really see a great problem with prod, for they will always be around for 7 days in any case, and anyone can remove the prod when they disagree with it. But as for AfD, the main problem is the one Hut raised, of notifying the creator. We could add a layer of notices to handle it, such as my "I advise you to fix this very quickly, before the article gets nominated for deletion by a regular deletion process, " but we don't want to complicate things too far. DGG ( talk ) 00:38, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, a new article that is unsuitable for the encyclopedia (but not speedyable) needs to be dealt with as soon as possible, not allowed to be swept away by the stream and forgotten about. --Stormie (talk) 02:23, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, 48 hours is much too long to wait. Especially considering a prod already gives it 7 days anyway. I tend to adhere to an Immediatist philosophy, where "any detracting quality (such as being ill-formatted or containing less than satisfactory material) should be remedied as soon as possible" and that a newly-created article should be as complete as possible BEFORE putting it in the mainspace.. because I care about Wikipedia's image, and when I picture a troll bragging to his buddies that his joke article is "STILL up after TWO days man! Lulz!" I can see how it would detract from the professional image of Wikipedia's administrators, about whom it may be said that they're not doing their job properly by deleting that crap ASAP, but also the professionalism of Wikipedia as a whole. -- œ™ 05:08, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Any required improvement can still happen during the AfD/PROD period, and is indeed often more likely to be triggered by an appropriate deletion request.  Sandstein  05:17, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Among other reasons, an article being a WP:HOAX is not a reason for speedy deletion, unless it's also WP:NONSENSE, but there is no reason to delay the removal. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 16:16, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Blatant hoaxes can be speedily deleted. Fences&Windows 21:53, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Whatever we do has to take the work force and work flows into account. Even if it's a good idea in principle, if the effect is that the taggers don't take any action two days later, then it won't work. - Dank (push to talk) 02:41, 28 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. There are overzealous deletionists at NPP and AfD, but we shouldn't snarl up the deletion process with this proposal because of them. A prod can be removed by anyone for any reason (other than serial pointy or disruptive removals), so there is no good reason to delay it. All editors should follow WP:BEFORE, but is making someone intent on deleting an article wait two days likely to make them any more diligent in this? I doubt it. A greater problem with deletion is speedily deleting works in progress without giving the editor any real notice or chance to improve the article. Fences&Windows 21:53, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Oppose Many, many new articles clearly qualify for deletion by prod or AFD. There is absolutely no reason to need to be forced to wait two days to tag non-notable, etc. articles that aren't CSD. Both prod and AFD still allow for seven days to object or improve. A forced delay will only allow unnecessary articles to stay on WP longer or forever. Reywas92Talk 21:55, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Hard limits do not work well when discretion is needed. Some articles need to be dealt with right away. While this may be discouraging to new users, the encyclopedia and the quality of its content is our first priority. By the time an article is 48 hours old the amount of attention it is getting has drastically reduced, it has a chance of being forgotten and just sitting there forever. Chillum 21:59, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, complete nonsenses. As others have already noted, if the article clearly qualifies for deletion, but not speedy deletion, then no reason at all to force a 2 day wait. There are many hoax and other inappropriate articles that can NOT be speedied (by nature of the "blatant" part), and should be tagged immediately. Both Afd and Prod allow sufficient time to show any notability of the article is tagged for that reason. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 01:40, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose if for nothing else but that it's unworkable. People don't operate on a two-days-later schedule. It will result in far fewer articles that should receive a prod or AfD, not getting them.--162.84.136.254 (talk) 04:20, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose—as other editors here have noted, there are many articles which should clear be deleted but aren't eligible for CSD. A good example is many band articles tagged for A7 but don't satisfy A7 because they released a studio album and have additional assertions of notability. Many administrators still cheat the process by deleting these articles, but their number would reach somewhere around 100% if this proposal was implemented. No one wants to try to help out at CSD and then realize they need to do more work just for a number of bad articles that should be deleted anyway. —Ynhockey (Talk) 11:02, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - I see no reason to exempt new articles from our policies. This also includes the pseudopolicy that surmountable problems are best fixed by editing. 81.110.104.91 (talk) 16:51, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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