Talk:K.d. lang

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Archives

October 2002 to April 2008

Capitalization and the MOS

WP:MOSCL states "For proper names and trademarks that are given in mixed or non-capitalization by their owners (such as k.d. lang, adidas and others), follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules." That seems to directly address whether to capitalize K.D.Lang's name throughout the article. Standard text formatting and capitalization rules are to capitalize proper names. It even goes on to say that "[t]he mixed or non-capitalized formatting should be mentioned in the article lead, or illustrated with a graphical logo." I fail to see any ambiguity here, and I can't understand why anyone would continue to revert standard capitalization back to all lowercase. Andyparkerson (talk) 00:57, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cause that portion of the MOS is stupid. Especially in cases like this where lang is NOT known anywhere under the capitalized version of K D Lang and when we make arbitrary exceptions for things like iPhone. -- The Red Pen of Doom 02:52, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you don't like the MOS, change it. That is where this argument needs to occur. Andyparkerson (talk) 17:20, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names) already says "Use the most common name of a person or thing that does not conflict with the names of other people or things." The most common name of k.d. lang is k.d. lang, not K.D. Lang. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.178.12.52 (talk) 13:08, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WP:COMMONNAME does not address matters of capitalization with a single word. But it does link to WP:MOSTM, which provides detailed guidelines for handling nonstandard capitalization (and by and large suggests to dismiss it). Our guidelines for music related articles (WP:MUSTARD) also link to that page, in the context of band and artist names. – Cyrus XIII ^(talk) 14:22, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WP:MOSTM is about trademarks and is therefore irrelevant to this discussion. K.d. lang is a person's name (not even a "stage name" as you keep pretending), not a trademark. —An gr 14:57, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

exactly how do you define "stage name" so that it does not include lang's lower case spacing adjusted monicer? -- The Red Pen of Doom 20:44, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A stage name is a type of pseudonym, a name that is significantly distinct from one's official, legal name, and taken for use as a performer. Using one's initials, or using a full name and an initial, or using only one given name when one has several, or using a nickname that is derived from one's given name, doesn't qualify as a pseudonym. Using any one of the last names one has legally borne in the course of one's life doesn't qualify as a pseudonym either. Whoopi Goldberg is a stage name for Caryn Elaine Johnson. George Burns is a stage name for Nathan Birnbaum. But A. A. Milne, C. S. Lewis, J. R. R. Tolkien, E. B. White, E. E. Cummings, and E. M. Forster are not pseudonyms for Alan Alexander Milne, Clive Staples Lewis, John Ronald Reuel Tolkien, Elwyn Brooks White, Edward Estlin Cummings, and Edgar Morgan Forster. And k.d. lang, with any capitalization and any spacing between the initials, is not a pseudonym for Kathryn Dawn Lang. It's just the version of her name that she uses professionally. —An gr 21:52, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hurrah! Her name isn't capitalized! Thus ends (I hope) one of wikipedia's more ludicrous disputes and its root, a flaw in the MOS. 81.132.83.199 (talk) 10:25, 3 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Capitalization discussion at the manual of style

For all interested parties, there is a discussion going on right now at the Manual of Style about whether or not to capitalize people's names against their wishes (like k.d. lang, for example). -- Irn (talk) 16:24, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WP:MOSCAPS

WP:MOSCAPS is quite clear that this article can and should be renamed: "Some individuals do not want their personal names capitalized. In such cases, Wikipedia articles may use lower case variants of personal names if they have regular and established use in reliable third-party sources." In addition to the singer's own web site (a primary source) we do have reliable third party references proving that k.d. lang is correct. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 22:21, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

It has been proposed in this section that K.d. lang be renamed and moved to K.d. lang.

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly.

Links: current log • target log • direct move

K.D. Lang → k.d. lang — As WP:MOSCAPS says, "Some individuals do not want their personal names capitalized. In such cases, Wikipedia articles may use lower case variants of personal names if they have regular and established use in reliable third-party sources." (emphasis mine) The all-lowercase spelling of "k.d. lang" is verified through multiple third-party sources in the article, indicating that the all-lowercase spelling is the most common use. Therefore, the article should be moved to match. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ^{(Many otters • One bat • One hammer)} 18:32, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Agree It should be moved. as per WP:MOSCAPS. Jenafalt (talk) 21:01, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Agree The correct title of this article is lowercase. ~~ GB fan ~~ ^talk 01:36, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support, k.d. lang is one of the most prominent people who don't capitalise their name. Thryduulf (talk) 09:12, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral - there's considerable outside use, but I'm not sure why we should allow people who decide on a whim not to capitalize their name to do so when we explicitly do not endorse the same from any other subject. 81.110.104.91 (talk) 18:22, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support Per WP:MOSCAP. -- Irn (talk) 20:07, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per WP:MOSTM. Typographical eccentricities are not an inherent part of a name. — AjaxSmack 01:12, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment You're citing the MOS guideline on trademarks, but this is a personal name, which is covered elsewhere in the MOS. -- Irn (talk) 12:33, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment it appears from the logs and talk page archives that the page was originally at the all lowercase spelling, and there was consenus against moving it to the capitalised title in 2005. It was subjected to various move wars, including at least one cut and paste move in 2007-8 with the outcome of all discussions on the talk that the correct title is k.d. lang. It was seemingly then moved to the present title, against consensus, last year. Thryduulf (talk) 14:14, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The article can always be move-protected. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ^{(Many otters • One bat • One hammer)} 17:43, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Whatever the outcome of this request, I think move protection might not be a bad idea given the history. Thryduulf (talk) 18:12, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

~~Oppose~~ Weak support, wasn't there already a discussion/consensus on keeping with the caps? See also caps at E. E. Cummings... I'll try to provide more rationale when I get the time. -M.Nelson (talk) 02:40, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

E. E. Cummings explicitly didn't self-identify in lowercase. 81.110.104.91 (talk) 16:06, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Changed vote to Weak support per nom citing MOSCAPS; see also Grammy website (search k.d. lang; results come in lowercase). It's weak because I still seem to recall some sort of caps consensus; also I personally just don't like the lowercase. -M.Nelson (talk) 02:47, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't like it is not a valid reason to support or oppose anything. Regarding the consensus, as far as I can see from the talk page and its archive there has only ever been consensus for lowercase. 09:25, 14 October 2009 (UTC)