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Enable new user groups and new protection level for roa-tara.wiki (Tarantino Wikipedia)
Open, Stalled, LowPublic

Description

Hello, please enable on roa-tara.wiki (Tarantino Wikipedia) these user group rights and protection level:

USER GROUPS
Autopatrolled:

  • editautopatrolprotected
  • autopatrol

Mover:

  • suppressredirect
  • movefile
  • move-subpages

Patroller:

  • editautopatrolprotected
  • patrol
  • autopatrol

Rollbacker:

  • rollback
  • editautopatrolprotected
  • markbotedits
  • patrol
  • autopatrol

These user groups can be assigned/removed by Administrators and Bureaucrats.


PROTECTION LEVEL

  • editautopatrolprotected

Add the possibility that pages under this protection level can be edited by Admins and Bots.

This protection level, can be added/removed by Admins.


Community discussion & consensus here
Many thanks in advance.

Event Timeline

Superpes15 added subscribers: TheresNoTime, Superpes15.

Ciao @S4b1nuz_E.656 :)
It's a lot of stuff for a single task, let's get into it calmly.

First of all, I don't think the sysadmins agree to add the extendednconfirm here (it has already happened in other cases that they refused)! Is the "only autopatrolled" protection probably sufficient for roa-tarawiki?

About eliminator, how will they be appointed and why are they needed?

The reviewer flag contains both patroller and rollback functionality plus blocking and proctecting! Is an intermediate group between the sysops and the patrollers/rollbackers really necessary in a wiki of that size (2 sysops and only 14 active users)?

I ask @TheresNoTime and @Urbanecm (sysadmins) for confirmation and then I'll do the patch.

Thanks :)

P.S. Remember not to change the priority (It's something that who claims the task takes care of)

taavi changed the task status from Open to Stalled.Oct 11 2023, 10:26 AM
taavi lowered the priority of this task from Medium to Low.
taavi subscribed.

Hi. Your wiki seems very small, could you show some situations where these groups would have been helpful but other options (for example electing trusted users as admins) would not have been possible? See also https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Limits_to_configuration_changes#Changes_that_are_likely_to_be_stalled,_though_not_declined.

Ciao @Superpes15 and hello @taavi! :-) I want to answer your questions here:

I can understand your perspectives and views, my intent was to create all of these intermediate user groups to "fill the gap" between Autoconfirmed users and Admins, so that encouraging to have more users to be more active in future on roa-tara.wiki (I'm trying to find people who are interested and to help out roa-tara.wiki to grow) and also to have a more possibility with having one/two more protection level(s) in order to have more security. Especially because lately there have been vandals coming to the Wiki (common and LTAs).
In order to gain these user groups, it was meant to do it at the page "Wikipedia:Richieste de le permisse" (to be created) and have similar criterias present on it.wikiversity at Wikiversità:Richieste di permessi.

Personally, I want to use the Admin protection as little as possible on the NS0 and sometimes, having the Semi-protection may not be enough IMO.
Regarding the some situations where these groups would have been helpful, there where few trusted users from other Wikis occasional coming to edit on roa-tara.wiki during my 8 months of my roa-tara.wiki adminship, that they could require having some of these rights, for example like autopatrolled. So that I and the other admin wouldn't have to press constantly on "Mark as this page as patrolled" if new pages are created.
But if we talk about a long time ago like 10 years ago, personally on roa-tara.wiki, I don't know if it happened (I edit on Wikipedia since 2017 and got elected as an admin on roa-tara.wiki this year in February), maybe the other admin knows more with his 10 years+ experience :-).

My intent with eliminator and reviewer where meant to be some kind of "semi-admin" because there may be users who aren't fit to be admins yet and which could be evaluated before being candidated/elected to admin.
Reviewer was also meant to be an "extended version" of Rollbacker and some sort "semi-admin" by taking inspiration from the use of blocking for pt.wiki Rollbackers. Eliminator was meant for maintenance work like deleting old templates or in worst cases, deleting vandalic pages or hide very inappropriate edits.
It was meant to be assigned to some other trusted users (even to some global patrollers if necessary, so that they don't need to ask to us local admins or at GS/R to block users and protect pages).

If it's about invalid Wiki URL/ISO code, I know that roa-tara doesn't have a real ISO code, there has been a dispute if Tarantino belongs to Neapolitan or not and changing to "nap-x-tara" (see also at T322244). But there are existing Wikis like simple.wiki that doesn't have a real ISO code but has for instance the rollbacker user group (I know that simple.wiki it's a bigger community than roa-tara.wiki's).

If it's possible to make this request "more economic", I can strike off Extended confirmed, Reviewer, Eliminator and Flood user groups + Extended confirmed protection from the request, thus leaving autopatrolled, patroller, mover and rollbacker user groups + editautopatrolprotected Protection.

I also wonder if there is a way that eliminator and reviewer can be kept in the request. Could eliminator and reviewer be assigned temporarily by Stewards the same way the sysops are assigned temporarily, by being also consistent with Steward requests/Permissions/Minimum voting requirements#Temporary Administrator? if there is the problem that admins could assign them permanently or removing. If not, it's ok and I understand your views.

I hope that that there is an easier alternative for this request (like having a few user groups like it.wikiversity?), so that isn't a complete waste, or as we say in Italian: "Buttata al vento" (thrown into the wind) :-).

Kind regards

P.S. Thanks for the tip about the priority Superpes! I will keep that in mind next time I create a task :-).

S4b1nuz_E.656 changed the task status from Stalled to Open.Oct 12 2023, 11:49 AM
S4b1nuz_E.656 updated the task description. (Show Details)
S4b1nuz_E.656 renamed this task from Enable new user groups and protection levels for roa-tara.wiki (Tarantino Wikipedia) to Enable new user groups and new protection level for roa-tara.wiki (Tarantino Wikipedia).Oct 12 2023, 12:08 PM
S4b1nuz_E.656 updated the task description. (Show Details)

@S4b1nuz_E.656 Remember that, per WMF policy, only users who passed an RfA-like process can see deleted edits (so eliminator should pass a RfA and, at that point, imho is better to give them sysop flag on a low traffic wiki) :)

Imho now the request is acceptable! Any thought @taavi ?

@Superpes15 Thanks for telling me this, I didn't know about that other user groups that has the possibility to see deleted edits, must pass an RfA-like process :-). But I guess that user groups with block and protect also require an RfA-like process (just for curiosity :-).)?
A theory I had while thinking to propose the reviewer group with that config, was that since editprotected wouldn't have been included in the user group, adding/removing Admin protection from pages wouldn't have been possible, right? :-)

Thank you for evaluating the request as acceptable now :-). I hope that Taavi would think the same.
But if Taavi has nothing more to say and no longer wants to intervene after reviewing my first attempt of this request, can another Phab admin review if the request is acceptable now, or is Taavi the only one in this case that must fully review and give the final result?

I'm asking this because I don't want to bother Taavi and if it's ok to proceed anyway with your review of my second attempt, if Taavi has nothing else to say.

Ciao e buon fine settimana! :-)

Superpes15 changed the task status from Open to Stalled.Oct 13 2023, 1:52 PM

Ciao @S4b1nuz_E.656, on phabricator there is no rush or any ETA for processing task (and some can also take a long time), so please just wait and be patient :)

About block and protect, afaik there's no rule (for viewing deleted stuff you can find the legal reason here), but imho it's dangerous to give these flags (which are potentially abuseable) to a group who didn't follow a RfA-like process (and as I said, imho creating a RfA-like process at this point, on a small wiki and for a non-sysop flag, is not very useful).

I'm not a sysadmin so my opinion doesn't have strong value here, I could make the patch anyway, but it could be rejected at any point and force me to work on it again. As explained here and also on the page linked to you in the message above, the decision on wiki configuration changes lies with the sysadmin, who can evaluate their effectiveness, pros and cons, and the real usefulness of the project. So, as I said, let's confidently await a response without any rush.

Also, the task was put stalled (so "waiting for discussion") and added to "analysis / under discussion"on the Wikimedia-Site-requests board by a sysadmin, please don't change the status of the tasks (or priority) without consensus. Stalled doesn't mean that it won't be worked in the future, but just that we have to wait for further imput by @taavi or any other sysadmins. Read here to find out more ;)

Ti auguro una buon fine settimana e abbi pazienza, non credo ci vorrà molto tempo a completare tutto, ma su phabricator ci sono regole e procedimenti diversi rispetto ai vari wiki ;)