Discussion Wikipedia:Portal del communitate

Interlingua

Hi, I am new to Interlingua. I read in the English article about Interlingua that this language has the most international vocabulary:

"In 1967, the powerful ISO (International Organization for Standardization), which normalizes terminology, voted almost unanimously to adopt Interlingua as the basis for its dictionaries."().

This fact, which is important, among others, does not appear in Interlingua article in Interlingua language.

My question is:

What happened with ISO vote to use Interlingua vocabulary as the base for its international vocabulary dictionaries? Was it applied? What were the facts that happened after that decision?

Do we really need Interlingua as international language? Why do you personally use this language?

Can you present 3 facts why a person that is not English native would learn Interlingua? And 3 facts why Interlingua is better than English? And 3 facts why English is better than Interlingua?

I need your opinion on this. Thanks.

Thank you, Mushi 20:23, 26 novembre 2009 (UTC)

Le question super le votation del ISO es interessante; io non cognosce le continuation de iste historia, ma si io trova un responsa a tu question, io te lo facera saper.

Non me place le question de qual lingua es plus “bon”. Io prefere responder a un altere question: qual rationes o motivos existe pro usar interlingua, e quales existe pro usar anglese? Mi responsas es incomplete, proque tu me limitava a tres punctos... io poterea scriber un tote libro super isto. :-)

Motivos pro usar interlingua como lingua auxiliar international:

Interlingua has the most international vocabulary (voted by ISO in 1967)

• 1. Interlingua es le unification in un lingua concrete del “vocabulario scientific international” commun a quasi tote le linguas de Europa e del mundo. Dunque, interlingua offere un function propedeutic pro cognoscer melio le vocabulario intellectual del proprie lingua materne. Secundo un methodo consistente e reproducibile, cata vocabulo de interlingua ha essite derivate de un certe numero de linguas natural existente, reducite a un prototypo comprensibile per medio de recercas etymologic, e regularisate in familias derivational. [1] Cognoscer interlingua significa cognoscer non solmente le signification, ma tamben le composition del parolas international presente in le proprie lingua materne. [2] [3]

(1.) Because Interlingua has the international vocabulary (scientific and more than that), why is it not used in international organizations, or in European Union organizations? (Mushi)

Isto es un longe historia super le qual on pote scriber un libro, ma mi responsa curte es: (1) nos nunquam disponeva del medios financiari pro un promotion apte; (2) le grande organisationes non prende seriosemente un cosa sin promotion professional, sin brochures lustrose e sin budget de centos de milles de euros; (3) nos interlinguistas non sape como facer marketing effective e non es motivate de facer lo; e (4) le societate in general ha prejudicio pro anglese e contra linguas percipite como “artificial”. In mi opinion, IALA faceva un grande error per promover interlingua principalmente como lingua scripte, negligente lo completemente como lingua parlate. Nulle lingua pote viver sin esser parlate. In scripto, es difficile convincer le gente; ma quando io parlava interlingua a iste conferentia in Portugal, le audientia immediatemente lo acceptava como natural. – Martijn 22:23, 27 novembre 2009 (UTC)

Interlingua is understandable at first read (listen)

• 2. Interlingua es comprensibile a prime vista (e a prime audita!) a centos de milliones de locutures de linguas neolatin. Un portugese non comprende italiano e un romaniano non comprende espaniol, ma tote le “neolatinophonos” comprende instantaneemente le factor commun, concretisate in interlingua. Considerante que le cognoscentia del anglese non es ben diffundite in iste populationes, interlingua pote esser un excellente alternativa. (Personalmente io provava iste concepto primo in novembre de 2008: io pronunciava un discurso a un conferentia super autismo in le citate de Porto, Portugal, totalmente in interlingua, sin preparar le audientia; io les surprendeva. Secundo le consenso general, interlingua se comprendeva plus facilemente que le anglese parlate per mi amica e co-orator. [4] Le organisator nos re-invitava in junio 2009, e iste vice nos dava un serie de sex seminarios durante duo dies, toto in interlingua.)

(2.) Because Interlingua can be understood at first read/listen and because it is an old language (it has more than 50 years) why people don't know about it? For instance, Esperanto is known, it is a bit older and maybe first real international language, but still Interlingua is quasi unknown. Why? Is it gonna be the same in the future, is there any chance that interlingua will become more known, as one valid option for Constructed International Language? (Mushi)

Vide mi responsa al puncto 1, hic supra... le rationes es le mesme. Io crede que internet da nove opportunitates al promotion de interlingua, ma primo, il es essential disveloppar un communitate de personas qui parla interlingua activemente e non solo lo scribe como hobby. Le communitate existe, ma es micre. Con un communitate plus grande, le requisite medios financiari e professional pote esser attrahite. – Martijn 22:23, 27 novembre 2009 (UTC)

Io oblidava adder que 58 annos de facto non es del toto vetere pro un lingua human. Altere linguas que nos parla ha seculos, forsan un millennio. Interlingua ha a pena comenciate. – Martijn 06:22, 29 novembre 2009 (UTC)

Interlingua is very easy to learn, it has the easiest grammar

• 3. Interlingua es multo facile de apprender e de usar activemente, multo plus facile que anglese o qualcunque altere lingua national. Le grammatica es regular e minimal. Le vocabulario es systematic, concrete e ben definite; il non es necessari preoccupar se de subtilitates idiomatic o cultural. A personas ben educate, le majoritate del vocabulario es ja familiar ex le linguage formal/intellectual del proprie lingua national; e vice versa, a personas sin education formal, apprender interlingua porta le beneficio additional de acquirer le cognoscentia del “parolas difficile” del proprie lingua. Novicios que assiste al curso pro comenciantes a un conferentia de interlingua generalmente parla interlingua passabilemente post un septimana de immersion. Interlingua es un investimento favorabile: on recipe le supra-mentionate beneficios pro effortio relativemente minimal.

(3.) I agree the grammar of Interlingua is easier than English grammar and easier then all the other (at least European) languages. But talking about vocabulary, Romanian is easier to learn. This is because Romanian is 99.9% a phonetic or phonemic language. This means direct link between spoken and written with no exceptions. No double letters, no phonetic sounds that can be written with the same grapheme (like "ph" and "f", or "si" and "ci", or "se" and ce" in Interlingua), no different pronunciations of different graphemes because of the context. Especially the double letters is a drawback for a constructed language, because you expect more from a constructed language. Double letters are not used in Spanish as well and they are a problem when writing a word, because one has to memorize what words need doubles, for reading there is no problem, because in reading the double is simply ignored. But why this overhead in a constructed language? IMHO, there is a big mistake for a constructed language to be more complicated in vocabulary writing then a native language. (Mushi)

Mi responsa in puntos:

• ‘Si’ e ‘ci’, ‘se’ e ‘ce’ de facto se pronuncia de maniera distincte (si, tsi, se, tse). ‘Ce’ totevia non es un parola de interlingua.
• Como io ja explicava, interlingua non es un lingua construite, ma un lingua derivate. Isto es un differentia fundamental. Es un error judicar interlingua secundo criterios applicabile a un lingua construite como esperanto.
• Io contesta firmemente que le vocabulario del romaniano es plus facile de apprender que illo de interlingua. Como omne lingua national, le romaniano include multe parolas non international, e on perde le avantage del familiaritate prior. Le vocabulos, incluse illos que es international, ha assumite formas evoluite. Lor origine, composition e connexiones familial ha essite obscurate: il generalmente non es possibile derivar un parola regularmente del altere como in interlingua 'integr-e', 'dis-integr-ar', 'integr-itate', 're-integr-abile', etc. – totes basate in un mesme radice. In linguas national, tal connexiones es generalmente perdite, p.ex. un espaniol non pote vider facilemente que 'integridad' es le qualitate de esser 'entero'.

Romanian language vocabulary writing is easier to learn than Interlingua for anybody. There is no need for spelling in Romanian, all the words have direct writing from the sounds, Romanian being a phonetic language like Esperanto and LFN is. Writing/Reading in Romanian is much more easier then English, and is easier than Interlingua. This is because English is very hard on the link from spoken to written, but Interlingua is closer to a phonetic language (still having exeptions like: double letters, how to write sound "f" using "ph" or "f"?, how to write "tsi" using "ti" or "ci"?). Not many exceptions in Interlingua, compared to English, though. Interlingua is close to a phonetic language. The Interlingua language was constructed to be simple, having a simple grammar (even simpler then English, so it was not used the rule of majority when the grammar was constructed, why then the rule of majority when the "phoneticism" of the vocabulary was constructed?). For a constructed language, even constructed from vocabulary of existing languages, to have exceptions and not being a phonetic language is unbearable. And not only for native speakers of phonetic languages, but for everybody, because nobody wants complications, and to memorize all the exceptions. Hey, but I'm not here to criticize Interlingua, it is still better for an International language than English (and easier to understand at first sight than Esperanto). Regarding Romanian in the previous example:

Lng	Substantivo	Infinitivo	Participio	Subst. derivate	Maestro del action	Habilitate de action	Habilitate de action repetative	Infinitivo opposite
IA	integr-e	integr-ar	integr-ate	integr-itate	integr-ator	integr-abile	re-integr-abile	dis-integr-ar
EN	integer	to integr-ate	integr-ated	integr-itate	integr-ator	integr-abile	re-integr-abile	to des-integr-ate
RO	intreg	a integr-a	integr-at	integr-itate	integr-ator	integr-abil	re-integr-abil	a dez-integr-a
RO	aspirat	a aspira	aspir-at	aspir-atie	aspir-ator	aspir-abil	re-aspir-abil	a dez-aspir-a
RO	loc	a locu-i	locu-it	loc-atie	locu-itor	locu-ibil	re-locu-ibil	a dez-locui
RO	cant/cantec	a cant-a	cant-at	cant-are	cant-ator	cant-abil	re-cant-abil	a dez-canta
RO	vizita	a vizit-a	vizit-at	vizit-are	vizit-ator	vizit-abil	re-vizit-abil	a dez-vizita
RO	construire	a constru-i	constru-it	constru-ctie	constru-ctor	constru-ibil	re-constru-ibil	a demola (dezconstrui)
RO	fapt	a face	fac-ut	fac-ere	fac-ator	fac-ubil	re-fac-ubil	a des-face
RO	profesare	a profes-a	profes-at	profes-are	profes-or	profes-abil	re-profes-abil	a dez-profesa
RO	imbracaminte	a imbrac-a	imbrac-at	imbrac-are	imbrac-ator	imbrac-abil	re-imbrac-abil	a dez-braca
RO	fabrica	a fabric-a	fabric-at	fabric-atie	fabric-ator	fabric-abil	re-fabric-abil	a dez-fabrica
RO	inspirare	a inspir-a	inspir-at	inspir-atie	inspir-ator	inspir-abil	re-inspir-abil	a dez-inspira

If you look at the first 3 (RO) rows you can see the Romanian language is much more regular and genuine in word formation based on its root word than English. For instance "aspirator" in English is "vacuum cleaner" or "sucker", with no relation to the verb "to aspirate". In other words there is no "aspirater", there is no "aspiratable". The second example is even more meagningful, and there are many examples like this. (RO) "loc" translates to (EN) "place / location", (RO) "a locui" translates to (EN) "to live", (RO) "locuitor" translates to (EN) "inhabitant", (RO) "locuibil" translates to (EN) "habitable / livable" so:

(RO) "loc - a locui - locuitor - locuibil"

(EN) "place - to live - inhabitant - habitable"

(RO) "fabrica - a fabrica - fabricator - fabricabil"

(EN) "factory - to make - maker - makable"

(RO) "fapt - a face - facator - facubil"

(EN) "fact - to do - maker - doable"

As one can see, in English, there is not always a derivation from the root word and it is not as regular as in Romanian. Mushi 00:20, 1 decembre 2009 (UTC)

• Como regula, interlingua conserva omne aspecto historic del orthographia que es conservate in al minus duo linguas de origine. Le orthographia de interlingua es dunque “conservative”, proxime al latino medieval, proque isto es le origine commun del quales le linguas de origine de interlingua se deriva: linguas como anglese, germano e francese es equalmente conservative. Isto resulta in un orthographia naturalmente familiar al majoritate de su usatores potential. Facer alteremente rende le lingua minus facile de scriber e de leger pro grande gruppos de personas.
• Le elimination de ph, y, etc. de facto elimina information utile pro le pronunciation: iste litteras indica un parola de origine grec, pro le qual vale generalmente un altere accento tonic que on expecta in un parola de origine latin.
• Le elimination de consonantes duple pote similarmente obscurar parolas composite o prefixos assimilate (p.ex. assimilar = ad- + simile + -ar). Isto impedi le function propedeutic de interlingua: es plus difficile comprender le composition de parolas, e le formation libere de nove parolas.
• Le grammaticas traditional pote dicer que le consonantes duple pote esser ignorate in le pronunciation, ma io certemente non los ignora. Pro me e multe alteres, le presentia de un consonante duple reduce le longitude del vocal precedente. Isto pro me es le pronunciation natural, e reduce le numero de homophonos in le lingua. In le interlingua vivente a conferentias, parolas como ano e anno, casa e cassa, papa e pappa se pronuncia de maniera distincte.
• Pro personas qui insiste que le consonantes duple es troppo difficile de usar, le 'ortografia colateral' existe, que face de interlingua un lingua phonetic como tu lo prefere (e modifica tamben le pronunciation). In le practica, isto es solo un question pro amatores de debattos linguistic: tote le interlinguistas active prefere le orthographia standard, incluse le locutores de linguas con orthographia plus phonetic. Proque pensa tu que isto es?
• Io nota que le consonantes duple in anglese non pare presentar problemas a te; tu scribe sin errores orthographic. Nonobstante, le anglese ha le relation inter orthographia e pronunciation le plus irregular de tote le linguas europee! Isto totevia non ha impedite su dominantia como lingua auxiliar international, lo que me pare provar que iste question es de pauc importantia pro le acceptation de un lingua international.

– Martijn 22:23, 27 novembre 2009 (UTC)

Motivos pro usar anglese como lingua auxiliar international:

1. Communication inter locutores non native: Anglese es le lingua international dominante a causa del domination cultural anglo-american. Centos de milliones de personas de paises non anglophone ha apprendite le anglese.
2. Communication con locutores native: Anglese es obviemente superior pro communication con anglophonos native (si on lo parla e comprende ben; le pronunciation native del anglese es difficile de comprender!).
3. Superior ressourses pro apprension: Existe un enorme communitate de parlantes non native del anglese, amplissime ressources in omne pais del mundo pro facilitar le apprension e exercitio, inseniamento in scholas ubique, un magne litteratura, etc. etc.

Le argumentos pro anglese es ben cognoscite, e io non vole elaborar los. Nemo ha le illusion que interlingua pote supplantar anglese como lingua auxiliar international. Ma io es absolutemente convincite que le cognoscentia de interlingua es un superbe e profitabile complemento al cognoscentia de anglese. Interlingua es un medio pro major comprension del aspectos international del proprie lingua materne, pro diverter se in le micre communitate de interlinguistas, e pro communciation con non-parlantes de interlingua. Secundo mi cognoscentia, interlingua es le sol lingua in existentia que pote effectivemente compler iste functiones.

In fundo, io pensa simplemente que il es un grande placer exprimer me in nostre belle interlingua, que ha tote le elegantia del simplicitate, e tote le peso linguistico-cultural del historia commun de Europa. – Martijn 07:16, 27 novembre 2009 (UTC)

Salute !

Io es completemente de accordo con Martijn.

Io volerea adder que in espaniol il ha ambiguitates de scriptura ab le pronunciation.

Alicun exemplos:

• 'intersección' (intersection) poterea esser incorrectemente scribite 'intersexión'
• 'lluvia' (pluvia) in quasi omne pais hispanophone poterea esser incorrectemente scribite como 'yubia'
• le parolas 'casa' (domo) e 'caza' (chassa) es pronunciate equalmente in America Latin
• in alicun citates de Espania, le parola 'Navidad' (Natal) es pronunciate (incorrectemente) [na.vi.'da] e le parola 'mercado' (mercato) es pronunciate [mer.'kao]
• le scriptura 'whisky' es le plus usate in vice del scriptura 'güisqui', suggerite per le Regal Academia Espaniol.

In espaniol, il ha etiam exemplos de confusion etymologic como le parola 'abogado' (advocato) que perdeva le littera 'd'. Illo sembla esser 'ab + ...' e non 'ad + ...'.

Gratias Mushi pro tu interesse in interlingua.

Cordialmente, --Julian (disc.) 15:23, 29 novembre 2009 (UTC)

Hi Julian,

Thank you for your answer. I believe in Spanish any "ci" can be incorrectly written with "si", which is one of the things that makes Spanish maybe only about 97% phonetic. (I know also about "ll"->"i" and "n tilde"->"ni"). It is still good, English having less than 50% of words that are phonetic.

Interlingua has some small drawbacks in phoneticism: it has "ph"->f, "ci"->"tsi" and "ti"->"tsi" and double letters (these defects Spanish does not have)

Interlingua is better in some aspects then native (in Interlingua "ci" is read as "tsi: which is phonetic being unique link)

I think Interlingua is about the same like Spanish, about 97% of words are phonetic.

French has maybe 70-80% phonetic words. Again, Romanian language has more than 99% of the words being phonetic (no double letters, no exceptions). This is just a simple evaluation.

• I can write a C++ program to analyze each Interlingua word if it is phonetic, if you give me a file with all the words. And the same for Spanish, and see the exact number phonetic words vs. non-phonetic words. Can you help me here?
• Does anybody know any article or book about "the phonetic languages"? Maybe there is none because the main dominant and "conquistadores" languages (like English, French, etc) are not phonetic and they don't really want to talk about the main defect in their languages... :-)

Mushi 01:51, 2 decembre 2009 (UTC)

Le linguas phonetic non sempre es tanto facile de usar pro nove parlatores. Per exemplo, esperanto include alicun litteras nove, con respecto al alphabeto latin, pro poter pronunciar differente phonemas. Le problema es que multe personas non pote distinguer inter le differente phonemas. Pro illes, alicun phonemas representa le mesme sono. Ergo illes ha le mesme confusion que con le linguas non completemente phonetic.

Io ancora non ha le file con le lista de parolas in interlingua, sed le lista de parolas in espaniol es facile de obtener in dictionarios electronic. In le pagina de mozilla, il es possibile facer un discarga del dictionarios, per exemplo de espaniol. Le files contine internemente un texto structurate pro facer derivation automatic de parolas.

Cordialmente, --Julian (disc.) 01:22, 4 decembre 2009 (UTC)

Create an Interlingua dictionary

Can we create an Interlingua dictionary on sourceforge.net or googlecode like this one? http://mozilla-arg.sourceforge.net/

• Mushi 22:41, 4 decembre 2009 (UTC)

Request for translation

• please translate this article in you'r nice language. best regards--glk:User:AminSanaei
• This requested page was created in Interlingua here: Fazin Fakhr Yaseri. (Mushi 22:59, 4 decembre 2009 (UTC))

Lista de patronos (List of templates)

Hi, is there a list of templates somewhere? I'd like to find one just by writing "patrono" (or maybe "template") in the search field. Wakuran 12:18, 26 martio 2009 (UTC)

Hi Wakuran,

A list of templates/patronos is here (in categories, but the list does not include all the templates, because many templates do not include a category inside their definition page):

* Categoria:Patronos

* Categoria:Patronos_infobox

* Categoria:Patronos_de_navigation --------- PaceFlama 04:23, 19 augusto 2009 (UTC)

Hola

Just heard of this language tonight but I think I need to learn it!

------------- (data del precedente commentario es: 22 julio 2009, 206.55.187.178)

Hi / Hola, if you want to learn Interlingua you can use the site

www.interlingua.com or you can use the help page (help="adjuta")

Adjuta:Referentias_pro_apprender_interlingua. --------- PaceFlama 04:23, 19 augusto 2009 (UTC)