Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Bohemian F.C. players: Difference between revisions

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Without prejudice towards creation of a list along the lines of the Arsenal list, or the other 13 FL's with similar titles. Courcelles 20:59, 3 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

List of Bohemian F.C. players

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PROD contested by article creator, who saus that this list is "easily referenced" - yet it has remained unreferenced since its creation in November 2010. I believe that the article should be deleted because sources for players, in order to create a list similar to List of Arsenal F.C. players and many more, will be very hard to find, and I don't view it as suitable in having this page as a collection of biographies (again, unreferenced!) of people who are not notable enough to have their own page. Giant Snowman 14:05, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 14:07, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. WP:CLN says that this list may exist as a counterpart to Category:Bohemian F.C. players. It would, in fact, be quite easy to fill out and source this list from the sources given in those articles. WP:BURDEN says "it has always been good practice to try to find and cite supporting sources yourself". I submit that Giant Snowman has not done this, even though I have pointed these sources out to him. This nomination therefore fails WP:BEFORE, part B, item #2.—S Marshall T/C 14:15, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Where have you pointed me to these sources? Giant Snowman 14:51, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In this diff.—S Marshall T/C 15:47, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think a Wikipedia category counts as a reliable source - especially one full of unreferenced BLPs... Giant Snowman 15:51, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid you have to follow the links to find the sources. A degree of effort is involved; sorry about that.—S Marshall T/C 16:43, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, like I said, the category is full of unreferenced BLPs, and many non-notable articles. Giant Snowman 14:39, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes! That's exactly what we agreed when we discussed this before, at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Frank Morris (footballer). At that time, you said this, which I understood to be unequivocally supporting the idea of converting the separate articles to a single list. I'm confused by your apparent change of heart on this.—S Marshall T/C 22:25, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

At the time I supported a redirect, never a merge, which is what it has become, and I have changed my mind over time - now instead of having two seperate unreferenced articles, we have one. Giant Snowman 22:43, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We're discussing one unreferenced list. Hang on, I'll go and reference it for you.—S Marshall T/C 22:54, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There, I've now added the reference I pointed out in October 2010.—S Marshall T/C 23:00, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You mean this one? If so, please tell me you're joking - that website is a cross between a Wikipedia mirror and a telephone directory! Giant Snowman 00:28, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sigh. It's the exact same reference you greeted positively and enthusiastically the last time we discussed this.—S Marshall T/C 20:55, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No, I was positive about the idea of a list, not the source. Giant Snowman 21:05, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 23:48, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Article like this should only exist if fully sourced or something similar to List of Arsenal F.C. players. This articles is in a bad state and in my opinion if these players do not have their own articles then this in affect are unsourced biographies. Are these players alive because if these are then could be deleted as a WP:BLP issue. Warburton1368 (talk) 18:24, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's not an article, it's a list. The sourcing issues are fixable, which means we're supposed to collaborate on fixing them (at which time we can remove any entries that remain unsourced). I think the mistake underlying this post is the belief that AfD is about the current state of the list. It isn't. It's about whether a decent list could exist with this title.—S Marshall T/C 23:04, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment in its current state this isn't a list at all more like an article. On top of that whet ever way you look it if there alive then it is a unreferenced WP:BLP. These are lists List of Manchester United F.C. players, List of Manchester City F.C. players and List of Chelsea F.C. players. Dose this look like any of those no. So it clearly is just biography's on these two players. Warburton1368 (talk) 14:59, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Please could you re-read what I've already told you?—S Marshall T/C 20:55, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. When I first saw this list I was relatively supportive of the concept as a way of removing loads of unreferenced biographies. I even merged an article here. Trouble is, sourcing it seems to be almost impossible. The only source at present is a Wiki mirror, and the only results I could find by searching for the two players on the list at the moment were some random news reports with no real information and this, which is demonstrably inaccurate by at least eight years. So apparently a list like this is going to fail WP:V, unless someone knows better, in which case I'll reconsider. Alzarian16 (talk) 19:06, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. A worthwhile article of this title might be possible if appropriate sources exist. But this isn't it, and to turn it into a keepable article would effectively be to start from scratch. Just two people are listed, and it isn't obvious why that particular pair have been included. If either of these existed as separate articles, they would be BLPPROD candidates. Oldelpaso (talk) 21:12, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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 *'''Delete'''. When I first saw this list I was relatively supportive of the concept as a way of removing loads of unreferenced biographies. I even merged an article here. Trouble is, sourcing it seems to be almost impossible. The only source at present is a Wiki mirror, and the only results I could find by searching for the two players on the list at the moment were some random news reports with no real information and [http://www.footballdatabase.eu/football.joueurs.tommy.byrne.110727.en.html this], which is demonstrably inaccurate by at least eight years. So apparently a list like this is going to fail [[WP:V]], unless someone knows better, in which case I'll reconsider. [[User:Alzarian16|Alzarian16]] ([[User talk:Alzarian16|talk]]) 19:06, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 *'''Delete'''. A worthwhile article of this title might be possible if appropriate sources exist. But this isn't it, and to turn it into a keepable article would effectively be to start from scratch. Just two people are listed, and it isn't obvious why that particular pair have been included. If either of these existed as separate articles, they would be [[WP:BLPPROD|BLPPROD]] candidates. [[User:Oldelpaso|Oldelpaso]] ([[User talk:Oldelpaso|talk]]) 21:12, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
-:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page. <!--Template:Afd bottom--></div>
+:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.'' <!--Template:Afd bottom--></div>