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Random 21
Joined: 03 Jul 2014
Posts: 155
Location: Nottingham, United Kingdom
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 Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 10:39 am
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Woah, this actually sounds really cool. I've been waiting so long for a good yaoi/boy's love anime anything, and while Love Stage and Rakugo walked up to the plate (Love Stage still fell into the same traps but just pulled them off better, whereas Rakugo was amazing but not really explicitly about a gay relationship despite it pretty much being otherwise), this really looks like it took the next step and made a legitimately impressive BL anime. Can't wait to see this at some point.
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VoidWitch
Joined: 14 Mar 2016
Posts: 100
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 2:28 pm
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Thank you for the review! This movie looks surprisingly good. Will check it out for sure.
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Gemnist
Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 229
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 3:05 pm
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This will get a dub right? I mean, I know Yaoi typically isn't dubbed, and it's No-Studio Aniplex who has the license, but it's in theaters, so it should right?
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lebrel
Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 170
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 4:59 pm
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I have mixed feelings about this review; on the one hand it does describe some of the things that make the story so good (as a manga, since as a member of the general public I haven't had a chance to see the movie yet), but on the other hand it spends more time saying what the story is not than what is is. Add the constant and poorly-informed BL bashing and it's not really up to the standard I expect from Jacob, or this site in general even.
And in case anyone isn't aware of this, the manga is available digitally through DMP (although the sequel is still in limbo). It is quite worthwhile.
| Jacob wrote: | | I settle for calling this movie boys' love and not yaoi purely because the line between the two is usually drawn at sexually explicit content, which Doukyusei does not have. But honestly, calling this movie boys' love also feels disingenuous for drawing assumptions too far in the other direction. Boys' love calls to mind anime full of subtextual glances and open-ended friendliness that deliberately leave the maybes big enough to attract a wider audience. |
This is a useless distinction. The definition of "yaoi" described here was invented purely by Western fans, and it's irrelevant to how the work is produced or categorized by its creators and publishers. Dōkyūsei is a professionally-published work, so it's BL, regardless of the degree of sexual explicitness.*
Also, very little BL is "subtextual glances and open-ended friendliness". There is a lot of fujoshi-friendly "BL-scented" stuff along those lines, but those works are not created or published as BL.
| Jacob wrote: | | Kusakabe and Sajo's relationship doesn't operate under heteronormative seme/uke rules, but treats them both like men with their own emotional strengths and weaknesses. |
Actually, they slot pretty nicely into one of the standard seme/uke builds: the reserved, nerdy brunet uke (glasses optional) and the more outgoing, demonstrative seme who pulls him out of his comfort zone (one of my personal favorite paring types; for another example, see No One Loves Me by Yugi Yamada).
And I could argue all day about the seme/uke relationship being heteronormative (which besides mapping masculinity/femininity onto male/female, also completely ignores the deliberate flexibility in the relationship of the reader to the characters which is one of BL's major motivating features), but I doubt that will have any effect so I won't bother.
* If anyone wants an exhaustive discussion, the anthology Boys Love Manga and Beyond: History, Culture, and Community in Japan (eds. McLelland et al.) contains several essays by Japanese scholars who have direct access to the fans and authors which explain the origins, history and implications of the terminology. (For those interested in scholarly analysis of BL but who can't read Japanese, this book is a pretty good start; I also especially recommend looking up papers by Akiko Mizoguchi, she's awesome. And openly lesbian, if you care.)
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Megiddo
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 6868
Location: IL
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 4:59 pm
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| Quote: | | These extremely talented women have done things with character animation I'm not sure I've ever seen in an anime before |
Can anybody back up this statement with video/gif/webm? I'm intrigued, but the words themselves do nothing for this case. I always love great character animation, but my tastes and Jacob's tend to be worlds apart when it comes to aesthetics of art/animation.
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The Mad Manga Massacre
Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 1035
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 5:05 pm
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I read the manga when JManga brought it over and have avidly gobbled up any Asumiko Nakamura that's been brought over since (I've bought but have been holding off on reading Double Mints though). I really wish more of her work would be brought over. I'll have to get this movie hopefully more of her work is adapted in the future too.
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JesuOtaku
ANN Assistant Editor
Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 3194
Location: SoCal
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 7:11 pm
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| lebrel wrote: | | I have mixed feelings about this review; on the one hand it does describe some of the things that make the story so good (as a manga, since as a member of the general public I haven't had a chance to see the movie yet), but on the other hand it spends more time saying what the story is not than what is is. |
Since the movie hasn't been released yet, there was a very strict no-spoilers-even-mild-ones policy for the review. Talking about what it's "not" was not only a nice way around that, but a way to encourage people who are uncomfortable with some aspects of yaoi to see this movie because it's very non-fujoshi friendly as well.
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crosswithyou
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 2104
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 8:48 pm
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| lebrel wrote: | | This is a useless distinction. The definition of "yaoi" described here was invented purely by Western fans, and it's irrelevant to how the work is produced or categorized by its creators and publishers. Dōkyūsei is a professionally-published work, so it's BL, regardless of the degree of sexual explicitness.* |
I was also slightly irked by that distinction in the review since it is outdated and incorrect.
| lebrel wrote: | | Actually, they slot pretty nicely into one of the standard seme/uke builds: the reserved, nerdy brunet uke (glasses optional) and the more outgoing, demonstrative seme who pulls him out of his comfort zone |
I agree with this as well. It's just that the seme isn't all "you're submissive to me" to the uke so it may not be as blatant as other bl couples.
Pretty sure it's not the case, but from the way Jacob writes the article, it sounds as if he hasn't been exposed to many bl stories with, well, stories. Perhaps that's just due to the restrictions placed on him, though.
| Megiddo wrote: |
| Quote: | | These extremely talented women have done things with character animation I'm not sure I've ever seen in an anime before |
Can anybody back up this statement with video/gif/webm? I'm intrigued, but the words themselves do nothing for this case. I always love great character animation, but my tastes and Jacob's tend to be worlds apart when it comes to aesthetics of art/animation.
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Just watch a trailer for the movie and I think it'll speak for itself. Nakamura Asumiko has quite a unique drawing style and A-1 was able to accurately translate that style into beautiful, fluid animation. It's quite breathtaking. The little manga-like dialogue bubbles were a nice touch, too.
| JesuOtaku wrote: | | Since the movie hasn't been released yet, there was a very strict no-spoilers-even-mild-ones policy for the review. Talking about what it's "not" was not only a nice way around that, but a way to encourage people who are uncomfortable with some aspects of yaoi to see this movie because it's very non-fujoshi friendly as well. |
If that's the case then I would be interested in reading another review after release where spoilers can be discussed in the review.
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katscradle
Joined: 05 Jan 2013
Posts: 279
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 10:06 pm
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| The Mad Manga Massacre wrote: | | I I really wish more of her work would be brought over. I'll have to get this movie hopefully more of her work is adapted in the future too. |
I wish for both of those too.
Asumiko Nakamura is one of the few artists that works in the BL genre whose stories don't annoy or irritate me. So I'd agree with what Jacob was trying to get across that this film could appeal outside the fujoshi community (which I'm not a part of).
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Chrysostomus
Joined: 11 Mar 2015
Posts: 82
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Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 10:50 am
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| Random 21 wrote: | | whereas Rakugo was amazing but not really explicitly about a gay relationship despite it pretty much being otherwise |
I absolutely loved Rakugo but I hate this meme that "all male friendships can be interpreted as BL."
It's like people forget that throughout history most men didn't really have any female friends. Some men in the Middle East hold hands with each other. Nobody who is reasonably educated would point and say: "LOOK! THEY'RE LOVERS!"
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