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Ed Miliband: 'Nick Clegg is a betrayal of the Liberal tradition'

The former climate change secretary on why New Labour must be consigned to the past, why he is the person to lead the left's revival - and why he'll never say anything bad about his brother

Ed Miliband visits the new Media City construction site in Salford on 17 August 2010.
Ed Miliband visits the new Media City construction site in Salford on 17 August. Photograph: David Levene for the Guardian

Party leadership races are generally much less interesting than pundits tend to hope. In the current contest, everyone always knew David Miliband would run – and everyone knows by now that three of his challengers are very unlikely to beat him. Thus it fell to Ed Miliband to provide the excitement.

The young pretender is certainly a sexier part to play than the dauphin, but when I heard Ed Miliband speak back in late May, he seemed so manifestly awkward about fighting his older brother that it was hard to see how the contest was going to work. Remarkably, the pair's pledge to say nothing bad about one another has been maintained, disappointing Fleet Street's hopes of a family catfight. But the pledge has also created a vacuum – and in the coded world of Westminster, this has gradually been filled by a subtle but damning Blairite critique of the younger brother.

"Ed Miliband is a really nice guy," Alastair Campbell has said, "but I think you've got to differentiate between making the party feel OK about losing, and making the party face up to what it needs to do to get into shape again." The former climate change secretary isn't "up to taking difficult decisions". Just last week, the former City minister, Lord Myners, accused him of tacking too far to the left on economic policy, and the columnist Matthew d'Ancona has declared, "Ed Miliband will never be prime minister. You know it, I know it. So why would Labour choose not to know it? Because, in this case, ignorance is so much easier than undertaking the sweaty, mostly thankless task of plotting a route back to power."

When we meet at an aerospace factory in Burnley, I'm curious to see which version will appear – the bold young pretender, or the endearingly meek old Labour loser. It takes less than a minute to find out. I've met Miliband several times before, and can safely say I have never known him to sound hungrier, or angrier, or more radically combative. When I mention the whisper that he's really a Bennite, he goes off like a shotgun.

"That is such nonsense! It's pathetic, genuinely, I think it's pathetic. If we think that the way we should conduct political debate is by caricaturing people we disagree with as Bennites, I think it is an absolutely hopeless way to conduct a political debate. Are we really getting to a stage where if an aspirant leader of the Labour party has policies of the centre left, we then say they're a Bennite? Or we say then where are your rightwing policies? That is the politics of triangulation. And that is not the politics I believe in."

Miliband's politics are quintessentially centre left, and not spectacularly different from those of his brother. "I'm confronting the issue of the kind of capitalism we have in this country, which means people get stuck in low-paid work." He is campaigning for a "living wage" of £7.60 an hour and would look at making the 50% top tax rate and the tax on bankers' bonuses permanent, but stresses: "I do not want a return to penal rates of taxation." He proposes a high-pay commission to scrutinise "corporate governance – the cosy cartels which award each other high pay", but also wants Labour to be the "party of small business and the self-employed" by looking at "the way the banking system works". On the Iraq war, some of his rivals have disputed his claim to have been opposed from the outset, but a friend of his confirms to me categorically that this was his position in 2003.

What he offers seems to be less a dramatic break with the politics of the past 13 years than with its style and sensibility. He promises to revitalise the party by devolving power and inspiring grassroots participation – and it's a noble ambition. But what happens, I ask, if the party lurches back to the left, leaving him with a pre- Kinnock problem on his hands?

"The New Labour style of leadership was, 'We seize control of this party, 'cos otherwise it's going to carry on losing,' right? That had its merits for its time. But this is a different world. And actually, if we'd listened to our party more on a range of issues – housing, agency workers, tuition fees – we'd have been a better government, not a worse government. We've got to not misunderstand where the centre ground of politics is – because you know, it's not just people in the south who have aspirations, and it's not just people in the north who don't like what happened with bankers' bonuses. And sometimes we were a bit behind the public in terms of where the centre ground of politics is.

"Of course you can't just win with the converted. But the point is that a lot of the converted became unconverted, and we've got to win them back, as well as the people who came to us in 1997."

Touring the aerospace factory last week, his thesis is borne out by the striking number of working-class, low-income union men who admit they voted Tory this year. Miliband also cites a recent psephological study which found that Labour lost three times as many voters categorised as DE – the poorest of the population – as it did the most affluent ABs.

"This is fundamental," he stresses urgently. "If we think the New Labour play book is going to work for us in the 2010s, we are completely wrong, because the electoral challenge is completely different now. But I think some people in the Labour party are stuck in the New Labour comfort zone, and think let's just repeat the formulae of the past and that it's going to win us the election.

"The problem is we took the working class vote for granted. Politics isn't just about policies – it's impressionistic, it's about emotions, and whose side you're on. It's about whether you're the party that starts off with a windfall tax on the utilities monopolies, and ends up defending bankers' bonuses. I don't think we lost the last election because we were too leftwing. I think we lost the last election partly because people thought we were all the same."

Miliband concedes that he does support certain coalition policies – on ID cards, prison policy, and an inquiry into British collusion in the torture of terrorist suspects, although he quickly adds, "I know my brother more than anyone else, and I know he would never sanction torture, implicitly or explicitly." But when I suggest that we have the Lib Dems to thank, he shakes his head impatiently. "No, no, I totally disagree with that. Does the fact they're scrapping ID cards compensate somehow for the fact they're taking an axe to the welfare state? Absolutely not, in my view. I care about civil liberties, but I care massively about people finding the services they rely on done in."

So Labour under Miliband would no longer be agreeing with Nick? "Nick Clegg," he says icily, "is a betrayal of the Liberal tradition. David Cameron and Nick Clegg are texting each other like teenagers in love because they agree with each other. It's not some forced marriage, they ideologically agree with each other."

The possibility of forcing a divorce, however, he regards as very real. "I think we can stop the coalition lasting. It depends upon people like Simon Hughes, Charles Kennedy, Ming Campbell – who I believe are unhappy." He sounds so knowing that I wonder if he is in private communication with them. "I have private relationships with some Liberal Democrats that I'm not going to particularly talk about. But I think there are lots of unhappy Liberal Democrats."

Miliband's claim to be the leader most likely to draw disillusioned Lib Dems to Labour sounds quite plausible. The prospect of an election in less than five years, however, poses perhaps his greatest problem – the perception that only his older brother is oven-ready for office.

"Well obviously I don't agree with that." But many Labour members struggle to picture the 40-year-old in No 10, so I wonder when he first imagined it himself. "I think I was a late adopter, actually," he smiles. "Others got there before me." Does he mean he was talked into it? "No, I'm not saying that. But you do judge the support, otherwise you wouldn't run. And lots of people said to me, I think we need someone who represents more of a change from the past."

Alistair Darling has warned candidates against being over-critical of Labour's record, in a bid to sell themselves as a fresh start. "Well I don't know who Alistair's talking about, but I'm certainly not dumping on the record. I'm absolutely not. But if you say, when you lose an election, the show was great but the audience was poor, you're going to keep losing elections."

He also dismisses any suggestion that his backing from the three biggest trade unions risks reviving an impression of a Labour leader in the pocket of Unite. "I'm not defending everything the trade unions do, nor would I as Labour leader. I don't think we're about to go back to the 1970s, and I'm not planning to take us there. But I do defend the role of trade unions in our society. And I think it's surprising that that's surprising, coming from someone who wants to be leader of the Labour party. Politics has basically become a middle-class pursuit – a London-middle-class pursuit, detached from ordinary people's lives – and it's actually the link with the trade unions which helps make us relevant to people's lives."

Miliband himself, of course, is a middle-class Londoner whose entire life has been spent in politics. An Oxford PPE graduate, with an MSc from the LSE, he worked for Harriet Harman before becoming an adviser to Gordon Brown, then won Doncaster in 2005, and joined the government only a year later. "Well I am the person that I am," he says simply. "But there are people who have worked in a whole range of jobs who aren't very empathetic, and can't understand people's lives. And there are people who have worked in politics for a large part of their lives who can, and that in the end is the test."

I get to test Miliband's famous empathy for myself when we visit a vast building site in Salford, where he tours the staff canteen meeting construction workers. Most of them seem to have no idea who he is, and it's a vintage scene of dauntingly tough masculinity – hard hats and red tops, pie and chips and tattoos. Any trace of the slightly geeky awkwardness Miliband sometimes used to convey has vanished, but there is nothing ostentatious about him either as he moves from table to table: no polished quips to bridge the class divide, but instead an unusually respectful intimacy. "What did we do wrong?" he asks them, listening carefully to their answers. "What do we need to do to win back the voters?"

The only self-consciousness comes when the photographer wants him to pose holding a hard hat in the yard, before an amused audience of smoking men. "Any politician that claims to you that they're an ordinary person is not telling you the truth," Miliband mutters, half smiling and wincing. "Because politicians don't lead ordinary or normal lives."

Miliband lives with his pregnant partner Justine Thornton, a barrister, and their 15-month-old son Daniel. Never part of the glamorous 90s New Labour social scene, he admits that even his own pretty austere idea of a work-life balance has been out the window ever since the Copenhagen summit in 2008. He has never looked after Daniel by himself for 24 hours – "I'm not looking for special pleading, but, yes, it is a big sacrifice" – and describes Justine as "brilliant", but feels no personal or political need to marry. "We'll get round to it at some point, but I don't think people would mind if we didn't." As party leader, he would guard his family life less ferociously than Brown, but more privately than Tony Blair, and "under no circumstances" will his sons go to private school.

He has to think quite hard to remember the last time he danced – "Oh yes, at Sue Nye's party after the election, to something from Glee" – and on holiday in Cornwall this month he listened to Robbie Williams, and read The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo. He seldom cooks, buys his suits off-the-peg from TM Lewin, and when I ask if it's true he once played in a punk band called Squashed Psyche, he laughs – "Oh I wish it was!" – but admits that the first he heard of this fiction was when it appeared on Wikipedia. In truth, reports of Ann Widdecombe joining Girls Aloud would be less surprising – and apart from driving too fast ("according to Justine"), his only discernible vice is an addiction to Desperate Housewives.

Miliband's unracy style has led some observers to cast him in the Brown rather than Blair model of leadership. But when I ask when he last lost his temper, he says, "I very rarely do that. I'm not someone who spends their time shouting, and I think it's important not to. I think you need calmness, stoicism and optimism. I think warmth and humanity are undervalued qualities in politics." Is that why people like Campbell doubt he has the mettle to win? "Warmth and humanity don't mean you can't make difficult decisions. I think listening is an undervalued quality in politics. And that's something I would do as leader."

After 16 years of Blair and Brown, and New versus old Labour, Miliband may well be a genuinely new and untested quantity – a pragmatic young progressive. He clearly lacks the New Labour instinct for triangulation, spin and soundbites, but displays none of the self-indulgently defeatist idealism of old Labour either. I wonder whether it might be his refusal to criticise his brother that has created an impression of a lovable loser.

"I don't care. I don't care. There are certain prices I'm not willing to pay for this. If I thought I could win this election by taking lumps out of David, I wouldn't do it. I'm going to win this with a clear conscience."

If he won't attack one David, is it just possible that people think he won't attack the other one?

"That is nonsense!" he erupts. "I hate what David Cameron's doing to this country. Alastair Campbell is wrong. He is wrong. Just to clear up any doubt, I don't want a Labour party that feels comfortable about losing. I want a Labour party that's back in power."


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  • NorthMonkey NorthMonkey

    23 Aug 2010, 8:59AM

    I'd rather Ed than David.

    I'm a little mystified as to why he is asking people 'what did we do wrong' though. The press were telling Labour for a year before the election what they were doing wrong, did Labour listen? Why should we expect any different this time round. In summary for you though Ed:

    1) ID cards
    2) Trident
    3) Civil Liberties
    4) Iraq war - although in fairness to Ed's voting record this was Tony Blair/Jack Straw I hold most responsible.
    5) Jacqui Smith
    6) Gordon Brown
    7) Peter Mandelson
    8) Alastair Campbell.
    9) Borrowing more money during the economic boom - madness.

  • Carliol Carliol

    23 Aug 2010, 9:02AM

    Yuk.

    Miliband is consumed by self love, verbose, and jealous of others who are more successful than him.

    For example: How can he say he doesn't want "punitive taxes" when he advioocates 50% income tax, AND special taxes on bonuses, AND NI contributions? He would destroy our largest service industry just to do down his intellectual and commercial superiors.

    His views on the environment are extrmist and would leave us with an energy gap.

    He comes across as nerdy and patronising (that Miliband Brother glottal stop!!) and speaks as if he has a permant head cold.

    In short, he is both politically and personally off putting.

    That said, I hope he becomes Labour leader, as he would consign them to oblivion.

  • DafadDdu DafadDdu

    23 Aug 2010, 9:22AM

    Ed Milliband....makes Dale Winton or Sue Pollard look like political heavyweights!
    Given his time as Climate Change Zsar when the energy corporations had him in their pocket; imagine such non entity as Labour Leader. The Con-Dem's would have a field day!!!

  • DafadDdu DafadDdu

    23 Aug 2010, 9:22AM

    Ed Milliband....makes Dale Winton or Sue Pollard look like political heavyweights!
    Given his time as Climate Change Zsar when the energy corporations had him in their pocket; imagine such non entity as Labour Leader. The Con-Dem's would have a field day!!!

  • scortenraad scortenraad

    23 Aug 2010, 9:23AM

    Well, well, well. First Miliband the Younger decries putting labels on politicians saying its "pathetic" "hopeless" "the politics of triangulation" and "no way to conduct a political debate"..... And a bit later he says that "Nick Clegg is a betrayal of the Liberal tradition." I'm sure the irony of that is, in fact, lost on him.

    I'm personally quite sick of all these Labour people all of a sudden thinking they know what is best for LibDem voters, and what we do or don't want. I certainly know I don't want anything to do with Labour, but that's just me, a Liberal.

  • scortenraad scortenraad

    23 Aug 2010, 9:23AM

    Well, well, well. First Miliband the Younger decries putting labels on politicians saying its "pathetic" "hopeless" "the politics of triangulation" and "no way to conduct a political debate"..... And a bit later he says that "Nick Clegg is a betrayal of the Liberal tradition." I'm sure the irony of that is, in fact, lost on him.

    I'm personally quite sick of all these Labour people all of a sudden thinking they know what is best for LibDem voters, and what we do or don't want. I certainly know I don't want anything to do with Labour, but that's just me, a Liberal.

  • sneekyboy sneekyboy

    23 Aug 2010, 9:27AM

    Does the fact they're scrapping ID cards compensate somehow for the fact they're taking an axe to the welfare state?

    No it doesn't Ed! But does the fact they wouldn't have to if NuLab hadn't been such a financial disaster register with you?

    Keep banging on about how higher taxes will cure everything, It only puts out the message that if you do well then you will be punished.

    Then keep on saying how the benefit system doesn't need reformed, it reinforces the idea that if you dont contribute to society you will be rewarded.

    That's the way to fix the country!!!!

  • Ryolin Ryolin

    23 Aug 2010, 9:27AM

    For example: How can he say he doesn't want "punitive taxes" when he advioocates 50% income tax, AND special taxes on bonuses, AND NI contributions? He would destroy our largest service industry just to do down his intellectual and commercial superiors.

    Very simply really. They aren't punitive, they are in place to preserve the essential functions of society in an economic bind. It would be far more in the spirit of punishment to simply abandon public services for those who can't afford to procure sure services for themselves.

  • Hemulen Hemulen

    23 Aug 2010, 9:28AM

    The former climate change secretary on why New Labour must be consigned to the past

    ...but how he was happy to ride on its back to further his career.

  • Hemulen Hemulen

    23 Aug 2010, 9:28AM

    The former climate change secretary on why New Labour must be consigned to the past

    ...but how he was happy to ride on its back to further his career.

  • foilist foilist

    23 Aug 2010, 9:28AM

    I remember him as the not very good DECC Secretary who decided against the BP Peterhead/ Miller Carbon Capture & Storage scheme- which would have been the world's first industrial scale power generation CCS.

    The only reason seemed to be it was post combustion....

  • peterbolton peterbolton

    23 Aug 2010, 9:30AM

    Contributor Contributor

    @NorthMonkey

    You are right, of course, the above 9 matter. But none of them really helps us understand the huge disaffection by DE voters. The London press will not tell Ed the answer - he can only find the answer to that question by listening to them.

  • peterbolton peterbolton

    23 Aug 2010, 9:30AM

    Contributor Contributor

    @NorthMonkey

    You are right, of course, the above 9 matter. But none of them really helps us understand the huge disaffection by DE voters. The London press will not tell Ed the answer - he can only find the answer to that question by listening to them.

  • Ooze Ooze

    23 Aug 2010, 9:32AM

    Scortenraad,

    Please ignore the Miliband brothers and Labour right now because they are not even an opposition at the moment,

    However, can you put hand on heart - as a liberal - and tell me you are not ashamed of your party's uselessness in this coalition and the way they have rolled over for 'the boys-the boys' to tickle, stamp, p*ss on them? Wether you are honest with yourself or not, one thing is for sure, the liberal democrats will be consigned to utter oblivion in a few years time. It won't be undeserved either for being so unprincipled and crap.. really crap.. in govt.

  • ch27 ch27

    23 Aug 2010, 9:33AM

    We are suffering from an overdose of career politicians at the moment, on both sides of the fence. Ed Moribund has never had a real job, and it was clear at his visit to the building site that he feels some embarrassment because of this.

    The only self-consciousness comes when the photographer wants him to pose holding a hard hat in the yard, before an amused audience of smoking men. "Any politician that claims to you that they're an ordinary person is not telling you the truth," Miliband mutters, half smiling and wincing. "Because politicians don't lead ordinary or normal lives."

    At this point I started to wondered whether he would know where to put the hat! Thank goodness they didn't give him a shovel to hold.

    Why can we not have some politicians who have lived and worked in the real world? Like many of the present generation of politicians (and I include Cameron and Clegg) they like in a world of theory, not of practice.

  • ch27 ch27

    23 Aug 2010, 9:33AM

    We are suffering from an overdose of career politicians at the moment, on both sides of the fence. Ed Moribund has never had a real job, and it was clear at his visit to the building site that he feels some embarrassment because of this.

    The only self-consciousness comes when the photographer wants him to pose holding a hard hat in the yard, before an amused audience of smoking men. "Any politician that claims to you that they're an ordinary person is not telling you the truth," Miliband mutters, half smiling and wincing. "Because politicians don't lead ordinary or normal lives."

    At this point I started to wondered whether he would know where to put the hat! Thank goodness they didn't give him a shovel to hold.

    Why can we not have some politicians who have lived and worked in the real world? Like many of the present generation of politicians (and I include Cameron and Clegg) they like in a world of theory, not of practice.

  • ranelagh75 ranelagh75

    23 Aug 2010, 9:41AM

    Staggering.

    It's blindingly obvious what New Labour did wrong, and you'd have to be completeld removed from reality not to understand it.

    Where do we start?

    - The assault on civil liberties (CCTV, ID cards, the database state)
    - The assault on common sense (PC brigade, health-and-safety madness)
    - The assault on democracy (waiting until the absolute last possible moment for an election)
    - The assault on intelligence (1 in 12 A-levels is now an A*)
    - The assault on decency (refusal to accept any responsibility for Iraq)
    - The assault on the economy (let's support out bankers but not jobs)

    Like most people, I broadly support equality and revile the Tories, but until Ed Miliband (or anyone else in the running) accept the fact that these perceptions above have made his party disastrously unpopular, they don't stand a chance. Simple as.

  • Ooze Ooze

    23 Aug 2010, 9:42AM

    Never had a job outside politics. Vacuous and charmless. I hope he becomes new Old Labour's leader.

    That's why the world is going down the pan. I dont want a charmer as leader.In fact I am suffering from 'charm overdose' after Blair, Obama, Cameron, Clegg. What we need as leaders are SERVANTS not Charmers. This is not X-factor or Big Brother Mona. Sorry!

  • Ooze Ooze

    23 Aug 2010, 9:42AM

    Never had a job outside politics. Vacuous and charmless. I hope he becomes new Old Labour's leader.

    That's why the world is going down the pan. I dont want a charmer as leader.In fact I am suffering from 'charm overdose' after Blair, Obama, Cameron, Clegg. What we need as leaders are SERVANTS not Charmers. This is not X-factor or Big Brother Mona. Sorry!

  • lankybloke lankybloke

    23 Aug 2010, 9:42AM

    "I certainly know I don't want anything to do with Labour, but that's just me, a Liberal."

    You've already made your bed with the Tories, so I'm not really surprised.

    As for all the sneering posts above - well, I'm not sure that union bashing, right wing extremism is right for the UK, even if you're convinced.

  • scortenraad scortenraad

    23 Aug 2010, 9:43AM

    @Oooze

    "the liberal democrats will be consigned to utter oblivion in a few years time. It won't be undeserved either for being so unprincipled and crap.. really crap.. in govt."

    Funny.... The unprincipled and crap part reminds me strongly of the last 13 years. But I guess that would just be me again.

  • vadid vadid

    23 Aug 2010, 9:46AM

    Both the Miilibands are dreadful. Only Ed Balls has been effective since the election. They are probably hoping that they have left the country in such a mess they will reap the rewards for the next election. Hopefully a fairer voting system and more uniform constituencies will put paid to that.

  • vadid vadid

    23 Aug 2010, 9:46AM

    Both the Miilibands are dreadful. Only Ed Balls has been effective since the election. They are probably hoping that they have left the country in such a mess they will reap the rewards for the next election. Hopefully a fairer voting system and more uniform constituencies will put paid to that.

  • Fatcancer Fatcancer

    23 Aug 2010, 9:47AM

    Yuk.

    Miliband is consumed by self love, verbose, and jealous of others who are more successful than him.

    For example: How can he say he doesn't want "punitive taxes" when he advioocates 50% income tax, AND special taxes on bonuses, AND NI contributions? He would destroy our largest service industry just to do down his intellectual and commercial superiors.

    His views on the environment are extrmist and would leave us with an energy gap.

    He comes across as nerdy and patronising (that Miliband Brother glottal stop!!) and speaks as if he has a permant head cold.

    In short, he is both politically and personally off putting.

    That said, I hope he becomes Labour leader, as he would consign them to oblivion.

    To lift from another contributor, If you don't like paying the times paywall then it is obvious you are going to object to a 50% tax rate....

  • chrisnump chrisnump

    23 Aug 2010, 9:49AM

    " We are suffering from an overdose of career politicians at the moment, on both sides of the fence. Ed Moribund has never had a real job, and it was clear at his visit to the building site that he feels some embarrassment because of this."

    They are all a set of wasters.
    The Miliband brothers ? what a joke.
    I will never forgive David for sabre rattling with Russia, trying to impress the psychos in the US . Can you imagine Palin and Miliband in charge ?

  • Tugster Tugster

    23 Aug 2010, 9:50AM

    I like the picture of him standing a good way away from the "ordinary" workers. I personally suspect Labour are going to churn a couple of leaders before they get re-elected. It won't hurt if he's the first

  • Tugster Tugster

    23 Aug 2010, 9:50AM

    I like the picture of him standing a good way away from the "ordinary" workers. I personally suspect Labour are going to churn a couple of leaders before they get re-elected. It won't hurt if he's the first

  • teaandchocolate teaandchocolate

    23 Aug 2010, 9:50AM

    I like you Ed. The thing is though I think you would be a good face for Environment and Climate Change Minister. You are the kind of politican middle England would love. The WI would have you on the top of its list as a speaker every day. You are cuddly.

    I am not sure who the leader should be yet.

    David Milliband has not yet convinced me he is sincere, however I am sure that he did not agree with all of Blair and Brown's policies. The whip is hard and few people on the way up would risk their careers.

    Andy Burnham needs time to grow. I think he could be very good indeed. But he needs to wait. I don't think it's his time yet.

    Ed Balls is able, but his reputation as a Brownite and his steely inflexibility worries me. He is a politician and he needs to let his human side out a bit more to convince me.

    Diane Abbot - I admire you for standing.

  • TwoSwords TwoSwords

    23 Aug 2010, 9:51AM

    I don't really think he gives a shit about civil liberties - Labour has in fact set out an authorotarian stall in response to various coalition moved to restore some of our degraded civil liberties.

    And that's the nub - a lot of the disaffected Lib Dems never voted Labour because of civil liberties and electoral reform. Unless Labour changes on those they won't go to Labour - they'll go to the Greens who are committed to both civil liberties and electoral reform.

  • scubadoc scubadoc

    23 Aug 2010, 9:55AM

    This universal vilification is what now passes for political debate? I suspected that things would go downhill under a de facto Tory government, but this thread surpasses most...

  • scubadoc scubadoc

    23 Aug 2010, 9:55AM

    This universal vilification is what now passes for political debate? I suspected that things would go downhill under a de facto Tory government, but this thread surpasses most...

  • fibmac70 fibmac70

    23 Aug 2010, 9:57AM

    @ranelagh75

    It's blindingly obvious what New Labour did wrong, and you'd have to be completeld removed from reality not to understand it.

    Read Rawnsley. Blair had the hunger
    But was stymied by reality. Ditto Mili-Pitts the Younger.....

  • algefern algefern

    23 Aug 2010, 9:57AM

    They seem to be doing the same navel-gazing that the Tories did for years. Actually there is a real need for a good worker's party to engage in a constructive dialogue with the urgent needs of the near future but no need whatsoever for a couple of silly opposing ideological wings that will never fly.

    I suggest dropping the name 'Labour', 'New Labour', and all other other terms which might be associated with pain or pregnancy, and calling it something like the Worker's Representative Party. Then actually doing it.

  • algefern algefern

    23 Aug 2010, 9:57AM

    They seem to be doing the same navel-gazing that the Tories did for years. Actually there is a real need for a good worker's party to engage in a constructive dialogue with the urgent needs of the near future but no need whatsoever for a couple of silly opposing ideological wings that will never fly.

    I suggest dropping the name 'Labour', 'New Labour', and all other other terms which might be associated with pain or pregnancy, and calling it something like the Worker's Representative Party. Then actually doing it.

  • Carliol Carliol

    23 Aug 2010, 9:59AM

    @ Fatcancer

    I do pay the Times sub and I am not personally affected by the 50% tax rate (or indeed the 40% tax rate).

    The reason I oppose Ed Miliband's anti-banker and anti-entrepreneur bigotry is that I can see that it would be bad for our national economy and finances.

    I know it's difficult for leftists to understand, but some of us do hold opinions based on principle, not personal self interest.

    And btw - Miliband's anti-Clegg comments are absurd given how hard Labour tried to strike a deal with him... And don't kid yourself Labour wouldn't try again if they felt it would get their feet under the Cabinet table.

  • Carliol Carliol

    23 Aug 2010, 9:59AM

    @ Fatcancer

    I do pay the Times sub and I am not personally affected by the 50% tax rate (or indeed the 40% tax rate).

    The reason I oppose Ed Miliband's anti-banker and anti-entrepreneur bigotry is that I can see that it would be bad for our national economy and finances.

    I know it's difficult for leftists to understand, but some of us do hold opinions based on principle, not personal self interest.

    And btw - Miliband's anti-Clegg comments are absurd given how hard Labour tried to strike a deal with him... And don't kid yourself Labour wouldn't try again if they felt it would get their feet under the Cabinet table.

  • Triffid100 Triffid100

    23 Aug 2010, 9:59AM

    It's amazing what champions for the poor these people are now they are out of office.

    When in power they did everything they could to erode civil liberties, start wars and make as many as possible dependent upon the State.

    However, he's saying the right thing for his "core" support so time to shrug and let them shout at each other.

  • TruckTurner TruckTurner

    23 Aug 2010, 10:02AM

    The right wing media as well as Tory supporters in this particular comment page have begun attacking Ed Miliband - I can only conclude that they're worried about him.

    It's quite amusing really.

  • TruckTurner TruckTurner

    23 Aug 2010, 10:02AM

    The right wing media as well as Tory supporters in this particular comment page have begun attacking Ed Miliband - I can only conclude that they're worried about him.

    It's quite amusing really.

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