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Orthodox attitudes to gay people shift

A statement on homosexuality that has garnered more than 100 rabbinic signatures is a watershed for Orthodox Judaism

If you think the Christian world has a problem with gay people, you should try orthodox Judaism. For centuries homosexuality has been taboo; it's not what nice Jewish boys or girls do. The biblical proscription against "men lying with men as though with a woman" (Leviticus 20:13) is considered the very bedrock of Jewish morality. For traditional Judaism marriage is the highest state of social bonding – a true union of body and soul. Despite some odd exceptions in biblical and rabbinical literature, (Jeremiah is told by God to stay single, Ben Azzai, one of the greatest of the Mishnaic teachers, remains a bachelor by choice), even celibacy was frowned upon. Part of this opposition was no doubt based on a response to the cultural environment – pagan in the biblical era, Christian in the rabbinic one. But despite major shifts in sociological contexts, the ban against homosexuality was rigidly enforced throughout the centuries. Whilst in other areas the rabbis often showed great flexibility and understanding, this particular area remained off-limits.

In recent years, however, homosexuality, among even the most Orthodox sectors of Judaism, has become a growing feature of contemporary Jewish life. In both America and Israel – the world's two largest Jewish communities – it has not been uncommon for rabbis and others to "come out", often suffering the consequences that such a confession entails. Moreover, reports of homosexual relations between rabbi-teachers and their students have been a regular feature of news items in both communities. In Israel and the US these behaviours have been the subject of a number of feature and documentary films.

Still, it was something of a surprise when, on 22 July, a large group of Orthodox Israeli and American rabbis, teachers, psychologists and community leaders published a "statement of principles on the place of Jews with a homosexual orientation in our community". The statement, which has some 170 signatories, many of them prominent in their respective communities, took some six months to prepare, undergoing countless revisions. The fact that so many rabbis eventually agreed to issue a joint statement is something a miracle in and of itself. There are no popes in the Modern Orthodox world. Rabbis are respected for their individual learning and their ability to solve current problems in the light of the tradition. For so many authorities to agree to such a radical shift in attitude reflects the seriousness of the issue.

The statement declares:

"All human beings are created in the image of God and deserve to be treated with dignity and respect ... Embarrassing, harassing or demeaning someone with a homosexual orientation or same-sex attraction is a violation of Torah prohibitions that embody the deepest values of Judaism."

Superficially at least this a complete about turn from centuries of deeply embedded prejudices. Neither do the worthy signatories distinguish between "genetic or environmentally generated homosexual behaviours". Their main message is "our obligation to treat human beings with same-sex attractions and orientations with dignity and respect". This includes: "affirming the religious right of those with a homosexual orientation to reject therapeutic approaches they reasonably see as useless or dangerous."

Rabbi Benjamin Lau – one of Israel's most popular Modern Orthodox rabbis – observes: "Although the document came out only now, it is the product of 10 years' preparation. Rabbi Nathaniel Helfgot in the US and Rabbi Ron Yosef in Israel worked in parallel to bring the statement to fruition. Although it does not herald a change in the religious law – halakha – it is meant to be an opening for a public debate on this very complex, multi-faceted issue. We are calling on all Jewish communities to relate to their gay members in a way of dialogue, not violence."

This latter reference could refer to an incident in Israel last year where a gay bar in Tel Aviv was attacked – killing two and injuring many more. More recently, an apparently romantic affair between two Haredi men ended in murder and suicide. It is thus of interest that last week's publication also found itself its way into the Haredi press.

Rabbi Ron Yosef, who is not only a community rabbi, but also a religious judge, would like his fellow gay people to be accepted within the framework of Orthodox law. This has not happened yet but, as Rabbi Lau observes this bold declaration, which allows for individual communities to decide on their own policy towards gay people, "has started the discussion."

After 3,000 years, it may be time.


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  • Psalmist Psalmist

    9 Aug 2010, 1:08PM

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  • exArmy exArmy

    9 Aug 2010, 1:10PM

    Psalmist

    wrote

    "Pampered is a personal opinion that I hope I am allowed to express."

    LOL I admit I did luagh when a gay thread came on here, new you would be on here but this time only with personal opinions.

  • CarnivorousVeggie CarnivorousVeggie

    9 Aug 2010, 1:11PM

    This comment has been removed by a moderator. Replies may also be deleted.
  • LukeRijnhurt LukeRijnhurt

    9 Aug 2010, 1:12PM

    This is certainly a way in the right direction , a lot of Rabi's lately have changed their view (social view) that Homosexuality is a disease that should be treated and those who refuse should be casted away , now they moved towards the approach that its something that people can't change (very important first step) but they encourage those people not to break the laws of the Tora (the law forbids 2 men having sex) , and that breaking this law is actually less harsh than violating the Sabbath .

    @Psalmist
    9 Aug 2010, 11:11AM

    I think it will still be a while before a Synagogue sees a Gay wedding.

    Why would 2 people that breaks the laws of a religion and a lot of them loose faith in the religion ( not in god, but in the Orthodoxy sect ) want to get married in a ceremony of the sect that hates them ???

    Why not create the First Judaic Gay Sect ? it wont be different form any other branch of religion .

  • Carl4sparta Carl4sparta

    9 Aug 2010, 1:12PM

    This comment has been removed by a moderator. Replies may also be deleted.
  • Muggedbyreality Muggedbyreality

    9 Aug 2010, 1:13PM

    The biblical proscription against "men lying with men as though with a woman" (Leviticus 20:13) is considered the very bedrock of Jewish morality

    So gay sex is OK as long as you don't do it through a hole in the sheet?

  • LukeRijnhurt LukeRijnhurt

    9 Aug 2010, 1:13PM

    @exArmy
    9 Aug 2010, 1:09PM

    If i remember corretly didnt Musims an Orthadox Jews unite against a gay march in Jersulem.

    At least its a start in finding some common ground.

    We should always rejoice when religions bigots group together .

  • stfcbob stfcbob

    9 Aug 2010, 1:14PM

    Good start. Now maybe some other religions could start dragging themselves out of the stone age.

    I`ll check on the progress in *2110.

    * That`s year....... not time.

  • bettybugbear bettybugbear

    9 Aug 2010, 1:19PM

    And after 3000 years maybe male and female members of the congregation could be allowed to sit together. And maybe women could be allowed to study the Talmud and become rabbis. And maybe hubands and wives will be recognised as the ONLY ones to decide whether they should have sexual intercourse during menstruation.
    Clutching at straws my friend if you think Orthodox Judaism is approaching anything like the 21st century.

  • SELAVY SELAVY

    9 Aug 2010, 1:21PM

    stfcbob :
    ***Good start. Now maybe some other religions could start dragging themselves out of the stone age. ****

    We live in hope.
    Then finally we may see the end of the countless evil cases of abuse of innocent children by so-called "Men of the cloth".

    Nevertheless , a good article and better late than never.

  • ChunkyGiant ChunkyGiant

    9 Aug 2010, 1:21PM

    Well as one of the 'pampered' gays I really do find this encouraging. It's amusing too to read the indignant comments from people who think this is 3000 years overdue; just over forty years ago it was illegal for two men to have sex in this country, an many of my friends grew up with the fear that they could be imprisoned if they did so. Regardless of religion, the vast majority of people have (until very very recently) considered homosexuality wrong to some degree of another. World-wide most still do.

    Anyone on here always been kind and tolerant towards queers, or have your ideas changed over time?

  • Goodgirl Goodgirl

    9 Aug 2010, 1:24PM

    The position seems to clarify, rather than alter the existing position. Reading the jewish holy books, it is the act that is condemned, not the orientation.

    Howvere, people have taken orientation only, as condemnation, never mind that several other things condemned by the same books are practised without cenure by non Gay people

  • toonbasedmanc toonbasedmanc

    9 Aug 2010, 1:24PM

    "All human beings are created in the image of God and deserve to be treated with dignity and respect ... Embarrassing, harassing or demeaning someone with a homosexual orientation or same-sex attraction is a violation of Torah prohibitions that embody the deepest values of Judaism."

    Isn't this basically the same old 'love the sinner, hate the sin' cant?

  • bree67 bree67

    9 Aug 2010, 1:24PM

    Well its good news. Lets hope orthodox religons worldwide get up to speed quickly on all human rights issues and stop perpetuating ignorance and hatred....

  • exArmy exArmy

    9 Aug 2010, 1:26PM

    ChunkyGiant

    wrote

    "Anyone on here always been kind and tolerant towards queers, or have your ideas changed over time?"

    Coming from an Irish familiy first generation English born here, it was a major scandal joining the hated British Army.

    Well one of the chief witch hunts a great aunt, well her son came out gay, after that my scandal was forgotten never felt so hostile after that.

    A shared experience of being the family whipping boy.

  • bree67 bree67

    9 Aug 2010, 1:27PM

    Yes I laughed out loud at Psalmist's reference to 'pampered' gay minority - it was a sad laugh though as I thought of the 18 year old man in Iran about to be executed for sodomy, the gay male couple imprisoned recently in Africa, the lesbians in South Africa subjected to rape by men as a 'corrective practice', the Australian Federal Labour (yes Labour) government refusing to back gay marriage - a very sad laugh....

  • MindTheCrap MindTheCrap

    9 Aug 2010, 1:28PM

    Psalmist

    I think it will still be a while before a Synagogue sees a Gay wedding.

    Probably, but remember that the civil courts in Israel acknowledged the legal rights of gay couples long before the same happened in the US, Britain and other Western countries. The IDF has never taken any interest in the sexual orientation of its soldiers.

    Oops, I forgott the Puar Principle. Sorry.

  • Slateski Slateski

    9 Aug 2010, 1:32PM

    This comment has been removed by a moderator. Replies may also be deleted.
  • harlequinmod harlequinmod

    9 Aug 2010, 1:33PM

    "All human beings are created in the image of God and deserve to be treated with dignity and respect ... Embarrassing, harassing or demeaning someone with a homosexual orientation or same-sex attraction is a violation of Torah prohibitions that embody the deepest values of Judaism."

    Their main message is "our obligation to treat human beings with same-sex attractions and orientations with dignity and respect". This includes: "affirming the religious right of those with a homosexual orientation to reject therapeutic approaches they reasonably see as useless or dangerous."

    Alll it really says is that 'we will not take the piss out of homosexuals'

  • Obsi Obsi

    9 Aug 2010, 1:39PM

    This comment has been removed by a moderator. Replies may also be deleted.
  • tamelion tamelion

    9 Aug 2010, 1:43PM

    No idea why I am bothering, but clearing some of the nonsense above up:

    Psalmist-
    "I think it will still be a while before a Synagogue sees a Gay wedding."
    But probably not that long as there have been thousands...
    http://www.liberaljudaism.org/news_liturgypresscoverage.htm

    Muggedbyreality
    "So gay sex is OK as long as you don't do it through a hole in the sheet?"
    But who is having sex through a sheet?
    http://www.beingjewish.org/jewishemail/resp0429.html

    As for the article- I thought it was interesting but by focusing on just Orthodox world developments a wider non-Jewish audience (like at the Guardian) won't be aware of al thel Reform, Liberal, Masort and other Jewishi considerations of the issue which are obviously relevant to the debate.

  • ChunkyGiant ChunkyGiant

    9 Aug 2010, 1:46PM

    Obsi

    It was a mildly offensive thing to say, considering the treatment of gay people the world over since time immemorial. But I agree, it didn't need moderating; most of us have been called much worse things than 'pampered' in our time.

  • Iceberg5 Iceberg5

    9 Aug 2010, 1:46PM

    The biblical proscription against "men lying with men as though with a woman" (Leviticus 20:13) is considered the very bedrock of Jewish morality.

    Err, sorry? Ex-squeeze me??

  • properbostonian properbostonian

    9 Aug 2010, 1:48PM

    toonbasedmancs

    Isn't this basically the same old 'love the sinner, hate the sin' cant?

    Perhaps, as implicit to any plea for tolerance, slightly patronising, but hardly in the same league as the way fundamentalists employ the "love the sinner" cliche, i.e. a maxim designed to get "them" to change their evil ways by showing how much "good" people really love them deep down. Nothing you cite in the rabbis' statement implies any intention to change a gay's orientation.

  • donalpain donalpain

    9 Aug 2010, 1:54PM

    i am beginning to wonder if some CIF contributors are clandestine trollers.
    A high percentage of articles could be printed under the headline "Light Blue Touch Paper and Retire."

  • Hol48 Hol48

    9 Aug 2010, 1:57PM

    I can get right on board with that, good for them. Changing entrenched attitudes is not easy and even if it seems like this ought to be obvious, we should remember that to very many people for centuries it hasn't been.

  • colbey colbey

    9 Aug 2010, 2:01PM

    This comment has been removed by a moderator. Replies may also be deleted.
  • gabriel100 gabriel100

    9 Aug 2010, 2:03PM

    "All human beings are created in the image of God and deserve to be treated with dignity and respect ... Embarrassing, harassing or demeaning someone with a homosexual orientation or same-sex attraction is a violation of Torah prohibitions that embody the deepest values of Judaism."
    ------

    This is nothing. The Catholic Church has punted this line for as long as I can remember, and yet some homosexuals still regard it as "hating" gay people.

  • properbostonian properbostonian

    9 Aug 2010, 2:08PM

    Gabriel100

    This is nothing. The Catholic Church has punted this line for as long as I can remember, and yet some homosexuals still regard it as "hating" gay people.

    If the "it" refers to the Catholic Church, I'd say some homosexuals have it right.

  • gabriel100 gabriel100

    9 Aug 2010, 2:13PM

    @ properbostonian

    ---
    If the "it" refers to the Catholic Church, I'd say some homosexuals have it right.
    --

    So, do you also think orthodox jews "hate" gays, even though their stance has now been modernised to match that of Catholicism?

    Or are you only interested in attacking Catholics?

  • ChunkyGiant ChunkyGiant

    9 Aug 2010, 2:16PM

    donalpain

    As in, say, Athens 5th Century BC?

    Its a common misconception that the ancient Greeks approved of homosexuality, as we understand it today, that is as an equal relationship between two people of the same-sex. The Greeks had quite strict rules about homosexual behaviour, which most commonly took the form of pederasty, where an older man woos and educates a younger man in the 'ways of the world'. The prologation of this relationship was not approved of, and both would be expected to marry (the older man probably already would be married).

    Open enjoyment of the 'passive' role was abhorrent to the right-thinking Greek male, and the Athenian admiration of homosexual love was something of a blip anyway; cups depicting scenes of same-sex love-making lasted a couple of hundered years, not so popular thereafter.

  • david119 david119

    9 Aug 2010, 2:17PM

    but remember that the civil courts in Israel acknowledged the legal rights of gay couples long before the same happened in the US, Britain and other Western countries.

    @MindTheCrap

    So maybe it's time for the civil courts in Israel acknowledged the legal rights of straight couples in Israel by allowing civil marriage ?

    The "Statement of Principles" seems to be imbued with a welcome snes of the humanity and worth of all human beings and is consequently to be thoroughly welcomed.

    One can do little about the World into which one was born (three thousand years of intolerance), it is the path one travel subsequently that matters.

    Let's hope the "Statement of Principles" of will shine some light into some dark and intolerant corners of the Anglican Communion.

  • Obsi Obsi

    9 Aug 2010, 2:18PM

    ChunkyGiant

    I can see how someone may find it offensive, they would have some trouble watching a stand up comedian for 40 minutes without being really offended though.

    Sometimes I think the Mods are too PC. If you remove all the comments that may be slightly offensive there would never be any debate.

  • properbostonian properbostonian

    9 Aug 2010, 2:22PM

    gabriel100

    So, do you also think orthodox jews "hate" gays, even though their stance has now been modernised to match that of Catholicism?

    I did, but not now, given this article.

    Or are you only interested in attacking Catholics?

    Not at all. You wrote "Catholic Church in the citation I used. Either you didn't notice this, or you seem to think I equate the thinking of however millions of Catholics there are on this planet with that of one guy sitting in Vatican City -as you apparently do.

  • seasurf seasurf

    9 Aug 2010, 2:24PM

    This comment has been removed by a moderator. Replies may also be deleted.
  • pretzelberg pretzelberg

    9 Aug 2010, 2:26PM

    I was pondering this issue just the other day after seeing the BBC's Secret Lives series about taboos in the MIddle East. A number of gay Palestinians told how they had had to flee the West Bank for tolerant Tel Aviv. The gay bar/community center they focussed one might well have been the one referred to in the article.

    As tamelion points out, the author might have wanted to address the more liberal positions of the reform branch of Judaism.

  • Achilles0200 Achilles0200

    9 Aug 2010, 2:27PM

    CarnivorousVeggie

    Yes, 3,000 years is a long time and judiasm has a lot of apologising to do, because it was judiasm that invented homophobia and passed it on to christianity and islam.

    Who says that Judaism invented it - any more than it invented monotheism?

    Homophobia probably long predated Judaism. Nor can Judaism be held responsible for the fact that it was also adopted by Christianity and Islam. Many Judaic beliefs were not adopted - the responsibility for continuing to persecute homosexuals rests entirely with those faiths - they should not be allowed to pass the buck.

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