Personally I would love my team, West Ham, to win it.

Warnock is clearly working towards a target - play-offs minimum. In that context, he has to be pragmatic. I'm not a QPR supporter, but if I was I would probably cheer this show of ambition: they have been a mid-table Championship side for the best part of a decade.

Did he name a significantly weaker side?

Not really from what I can see. It's daft basically telling your players not to bother in the programme notes, which they tend to read brfore games, whatever your intention in the competition.

Pre-Season seemed so short this year, so an extra few games are welcome.

And CUP FEVER!

Given QPR don't have to waste time in the Johnstone's Paint Trophy, and won't be in the FA cup until the 3rd round (and so would only still be in the comp if they reached the semis) i'm surprised. It's only 5 games, and I would have thought that getting a run of games together would help a team at this point of the season.

And, as is said, there is a reasonable chance of making it to the later rounds whereby he might be able to use any TV revenue to fund the new striker he desperately wants.

Unless radical surgery is carried out, the League Cup, and for that matter the FA Cup, resemble minor irritants to Championship clubs obsessed with reaching the so-called 'Holy Grail' of the Premiership; or non-members of the 'Top 4', pathologically unable to focus on anything else but qualification for the Champions League.

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with this view, but anyone who thinks otherwise is breathtakingly naive.

Well they got what they deserved, knocked out again by a lower placed side. I understand when there is a build up of matches as the season goes on how teams would need to prioritise competitions but it seems a little premature right now given QPR have not done much over recent seasons and have played one championship match.

Plus their manager is Colin. What more do you need to say.

Blatantly, I'm a QPR fan - and because of my knowledge of how the club needs to progress, the size of our squad, the limitations in what we've been spending and the overall priorities Warnock shares with the fans, I have to disagree with most of this blog.

Surely, the question is why SHOULD we care about the carling cup? We play enough games in a season anyway, and with limited options on the bench I'd rather we didn't risk injury to any of our key players uneccesarily thanks very much! It's bad enough that Taarabt, Gorkks & Helguson were summoned to pointless midweek international friendly games - Buzsaky as well were he fit.

As for not playing a weakened side...well, yes we did. That doesn't excuse losing 3-1 to a league 2 side, but our bench was full of youngsters, reserve left back, Leon Clark is only just fit from a thigh strain, Orr hasn't played in our pre-season, Faurlin was deliberately not brought on - at the end of the day, I and many other Rangers fans wholehartedly agree with concentrating on the league this season. we still need to build a proper squad with what's left of the transfer window, and we're away at Sheffield Utd on Saturday.

So no, I don't care about the Carling cup! I care about the Premiership. And to suggest we'll just get instantly relegated like Burnley is a little shortsighted - we've got a lot more money than they do, and I believe once promotion is achieved, the purse strings might be loosened a bit to not only cover the wage increase but bring in quality players. Something most clubs in the Championship simply don't have the resources to do.

Time will tell. Good luck with the cup run and the league Port Vale, I hope the win against us will spur you on!

Kingstevie,

given there is only really one of the top 4 spaces on offer, and the league cup gives a trip to wembley and a place in europe, does it really need to be changed? For all but the fans of the top premier league clubs, and those playing in europe already, I don't see why you wouldn't really care about it.

I can see it isn't a priority, but not being a priority is different to fielding a weak team this early in the competition.

I think it's safe to say a policy initiated by Warnock will not necessarily be copied by other championship managers. Otherwise we're in for a season of deliberate elbows, knee high studs-up 'tackles' and players faking injuries in order to abondon games. And moaning. And whinging. And being wrong....a lot.

FearOfaJackPlanet - six changes: including Icelandic international Heidar Helguson...

kingstevie11 - exactly

OldDivision4 (like your blog name!) - Totally agree. In his programme notes Warnock even said: "I feel that some of the players need an extra week of training rather than another game"!

westmike - me too. And I would have thought that all fans outside the big four (and frankly some Arsenal fans too) would think that way.

happygoth - Show of ambition? Really? I can't help feeling a little sad when "pragmatism" replaces the desire for a bit of glory. I'd much rather see my team win a cup than spend a season being outclassed in the Premiership. Not that that is particularly likely for The Vale. But winning the LDV Vans trophy was fabulous when it happened.

Does anyone care about Neil Warnock?

AlexQPR81UK - thanks for your very generous final sentence.
I did notice the number of strange internationals in your squad. The Vale meanwhile are all Englishmen plus two Welshmen. Not much chance of our players being sent overseas for friendly internationals. (Not many internationals for that matter). But if you buy foreign players, you surely have to accept that they will be travelling to games.
I guess it depends on how important you think the Premiership is. And how much fun it will be when you get there. If you go up for one season but your wage bill grows, it can be a financial nightmare for clubs when they are relegated again.

denispat/slosh - The point is that I fear that Warnock is not alone in his feelings about the League Cup.

If you want to change it then make it reflect the name.

It's the Football League Cup (isn't it?) so keep the european place but make the competition open only to teams who finished the previous season/started the current season in the Football League (League 2 - Championship). Ditch the premier boys and you'd probably find a lot of teams pay quite a bit more attention to it.

And you never know, they might find they do ok in the europa league (why can't we have the cup winners cup back?) and show the premier up a bit.

First of all, great to see a fellow Vale fan writng for the Grauniad.

As soon as the likes of Man U started to take the league cup less seriously it was obvious that this trend would filter down through the leagues. Even so, I was gobsmacked yesterday when I read that a few Vale fans saw the competition as a nuisance.

My own opinion is that cup competitions offer so many positives for clubs like Vale that it would be ridiculous not to treat them seriously. On the back of last night's game Vale have a bit of extra publicity, potentially an extra few quid in the bank and a chance for the players to play at least one more game away from the pressure of the league.

If the media, including the Guardian, gave the League Cup a bit more coverage, then maybe it wouldn't be so easy for managers to get away with doing things like this. There were some pretty amazing results last night but the only report on The Guardian site is on the Chesterfield v Middlesbrough game. There is nothing at all in The Independent. I had to go to the Beeb to find out that it wasn't David James who let three goals in for Bristol City last night. Where's the shame in being knocked out by a minnow if nobody reports it?

the prize money and gate receipts from playing in the league cup is completely and utterly pointless.

losing semi finalist gets £25k, just to put it into context.

The League Cup is the only real trophy QPR have ever won. Warnock's attachment to the club looks suspect. The Rs' have a history that he doesn't take into account . Success in the old League Cup led them on to to go in successive seasons from 3rd South to first div and into European competition. They stayed in the top flight until relegated from the Premier league in the 1990s.

i quite like Colin, not sure why he gets such a bad press. Maybe he tells you what a "his comedy surname" you are in the main. Fairly sure its low on most clubs priorities and theres nothing wrong with priorities changing, i'll worry more when clubs just dont care about anything anymore.

@Busfield

You seem to be forgetting that QPR are owned by some ludicrously wealthy individuals (including Mittal, the world's 8th richest individual) so promotion is absolutely key for them. The financial consequences of promotion are less of an issue for QPR than probably any other club in that division.

As for how enjoyable the prem is, as a WBA supporter, our yo-yo years have convinced me it's actually more fun being a good side in the 1st div than getting shat on every week in the prem. Still, at least we're soundly managed on the financial side.

Football clubs can't be expected to take this competition seriously when the FA organise the matches to coincide with international friendlies, thus depriving a large number of teams of several of their key players.

Imagine if they'd done that with the first round of the champions league. The Fergusons, Wengers etc ec would be going beserk over it.

I have mixed feelings about this decision. One the one hand, I think that rather than showing ambition, rather, it shows a lack of it, or at least of belief in the squad. Concentrating only on promotion betrays a feeling that we really don't have the depth to go up, and the result only deepens this feeling.

However, with that being obviously the case to any Rangers fan before the match, it does show a real desire to do whatever it takes to go up. And yes, Mr Busman, if you ask any of us if that should be a priority, I imagine you'll find that it is.

If I can turn your own fear regarding the Carling Cup's relegation to a sideshow back on you: Whay shouldn't promotion be a priority? Surely, every team should have the ultimate goal of climbing into the Premiership, and if possible, fighting to win it. Of course financial stability must be a top consideration, as we have seen inthe fate of clubs managed recklessly. As such, I can only applaud the restraint (can't believe I'm saying this) of the QPR owners, in waiting until promotion is gained, until we spend. Other clubs have gambled and paid the price.

However, when promotion is a real possibility, it is the responsibility of the manager, amongst others, to ensure that that chance is taken. If Warnock doesn't think we can afford to risk certain players, then that is a sad fact, but it's still a fact.

Personally, I think our team needs strengthening even more if we are to push for promotion despite ignoring the other distractions throughout the season. As someone else has commented, a League One team at home should still be achievable.

But I also think it's a gamble to treat the Carling Cup in this cavalier way. A cup run can do wonders for morale, and lets face it, we don't ever stay in that long anyway, so it's not as if it ever extends our season that much. Why not try our best?

On the other hand, Injuries, can occur in a second, and we have 2 or 3 players without whom our aspirations would be over.

I therefore reluctantly agree with Warnock, though I'm not sure of the wisdom of putting his thoughts down in writing before the match.

But I am glad we've got a straight talking manager, and an owner that lets him be himself an dmake his own decisions, and so this brutal honesty goes with the territory I suppose.

In total agreement with the kist of this blog. The emphasis on the top flight these days is so overwhleming that becoming a mediocre middle table side in the Premiership is now the ultimate aspiration.

I remember a couple of yeas ago Reading making it pretty clear that the league took priority of over the FA Cup immediately before a big cup match, think it was a quarter final. They lost the cup match but also got relegated - what have Reading got to show for their time in the Prem? nothing but memories of one season in mid-table.

As a Vale fan I was delighted to get the result last night, having feared a long night following QPR's great start to their league campaign. However it is a shame if higher clubs are taking it less seriously as it knocks the shine of the competition.

Big teams bringing their big players to cup ties is what supporting a lower league club is all about. I remember Crystal Palace, Everton, Southampton all being beaten at Vale Park and they are my fondest memories of being a Vale fan. When else would I have seen my own team play on the same pitch as Bergkamp, Overmars, Seaman, Le Tis etc...let's face it the Premier league is not an option for the Vale.

I would also say, imagine 30 years into the future as a professional footballer, what would you rather look back on??? A league cup winners medal and a European appearence or no medals the fact that you once got beat 0-6 at home to Chelsea but the club made some money??? Medals keep and so do final day memories, cash will always run out...

Bobby Robson once said, "do not love the prize more than the game, as without the game there would be no prize." Never a truer word spoken about our beautiful game...

rontrotter -

I don't know if you are an R's fan, but speaking for myself, I think you overemphasize my own sentimental attavhemnt to the League Cup.

Yes it foreshadowed a period of great success for us, bu tthat was, well, a bloody long time ago.

I'd love to win a trophy, but honestly, I don't think we're going to do that without (more substancial ) financial investment, and we're not going to get THAT until we go up, though it has dangled in front of us for a couple of years.

MrMydak - now there's a good idea!

Okay, the financial rewards would suffer (though they aren't that much to get woeked up about anyway), and the real chance of a trophy would strengthen the lower divisions' interest substancially I would think.

RichAlchemy - Couldn't agree more.

@youcantalan...

come on... It was Upper Mid Table

I support a league one club and I have to say 'no'- don't really give a stuff. We've got no chance of winning it, so I just see it as an unnecessary distraction from what is a marathon league season at our level. Of course it's nice to draw a Premiership club but they tend to put out their reserve side anyway so that takes a lot of the gloss off such occasions.
If you ask me it's an utterly pointless competition and should be put out of its misery ASAP.
The last time we had a decent run it - we ended up with a huge fixture pile up and got relegated!
I'm hoping the fact we got slaughtered 6-1 last night is an omen we're going up this season ;0)

Re: The LDV vans trophy. I don't really care about that either but at least it's something we're in with a genuine chance of winning.

You'd think, given that Stockport were dumped out 0-5 last night, our 6th 1st round exit in 7 years, that I'd hate this competition. However, I love cup competitions, possibly more than the league. If Paul Simpson had said the same thing before last night's game, or before a Johnstone Paints Trophy game or FA Cup game, I'll be annoyed.

Winning a trophy, no matter what trophy, is the best thing that can happen to a club. Ruling one out before you've even tried is scandalous.

Johny5eyes,

In what was probably stockports best ever season we got promoted from the old third division (hen division 2, now league 1) whilst also reaching the semi finals of the league cup, and the 5th round of the FA cup. We played a hell of a lot of games (67 IIRC) but the morale boost we got from beating premier league teams (Southampton, West Ham, Blackburn, and MIddlesborough) helped us in the league.

So what that we didn't win it - those games were great to see - you don't often get to see you team (esp from leagues 1/2) play against, match for skill and endeavour and beat premier league teams. The memories are worth it.

I still say that after our team forgot to leave the changing room at half-time last night leading to a 5-0 defeat.

I would like to echo those sentiments, Vale fans are few and far between on here so it is heartening to find a Vale supporting columnist.

As for Warnock's team selection and programme notes, I think the issue of respect needs to be raised. I don't wish to sound pretentious, but making six changes to a team that won 4-0 smacks of thinking "this will be a walkover", and Vale turned it around on them. If he's making that many changes and saying he's not bothered about the competition, then it says to me he's not bothered about the opposition, and that's disrespectful to a team that has had to rebuild itself into what I hope will be a promotion winning side after a bad couple of years suckling at the sour teat of despair ;-)

In Gary Roberts, we have potentially the best midfielder in the division if we can get his head straight, and in Lee Collins, John McCombe, Gareth Owen and Kris Taylor, have a clutch of defenders who have all won promotion from this league. Marry all of that with a strike force who managed 38 goals at their respective clubs last season (Marc Richards and Justin Richards), and two of the best young goalkeepers in the lower leagues, and you have all the ingredients for a promotion winning side.

Not forgetting of course, Micky Adams, who its fair to say is our best manager since the heady days of John Rudge-based success. With a bit of cash who knows where we can go?

I've got very mixed feelings about it. On the one hand it's good to get a good cup run going - it engenders a good spirit in the camp, breeds confidence, earns a few extra quid etc - but on the other it can be a distraction, even for smaller clubs.

We (Huddersfield) got a 1-0 win last night against Carlisle, but I wouldn't have been disappointed if we'd lost. As a team with (for once) a relatively realistic chance of going up this year I'd much rather achieve that than a run to the quarters of the League Cup, or the FA Cup. The League 1 champions medal (or play-off medal) is a more realistic proposition than winning the League or FA Cup.

@stevie11:

Unless radical surgery is carried out, the League Cup, and for that matter the FA Cup, resemble minor irritants to Championship clubs obsessed with reaching the so-called 'Holy Grail' of the Premiership; or non-members of the 'Top 4', pathologically unable to focus on anything else but qualification for the Champions League. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with this view, but anyone who thinks otherwise is breathtakingly naive.

Yet it was only 2008 when WBA (while being promoted), Cardiff (whilst maintaining a play-off challenge) and my boys Barnsley (whilst fighting a relegation battle and disposing of Liverpool at Anfield and Chelsea at Oakwell) who made it to the semi's. Maybe they players were breathtakingly naive.

PhilStoke -

Stop complaining, I could cope with being disrespected all through the season, by every team, if we beat them all 3-1 (-;

@ Phack 2

Ok, taking your example, How many of the Managers / Supporters / Players of Cardiff and Barnsley would have swapped a League Cup Winners Medal for promotion to the Premiership?

Hand on Heart, I would say almost all of them. Thats the problem.

@ AlexQPR81UK

One of the most condescending and patronising e-mails I've read for some time, made me chuckle a lot. Highlights being:

- Why SHOULD we care about the Carling Cup? Presumably you are better than that...

- Countries have the temerity to call up our players in a FIFA approved international period. Do they know who we are?

- I don't care about the CC - But here are my excuses for why my superior Championship boys didn't level your brave basement battlers - (insert list of injuries here - presume Vale have a 50 man squad all of whom are fighting fit)

- I care about the Premiership - it doesn't care about you. It has forgotten who you are.

AND THE TWO HIGHLIGHTS

- Comparing us to little Northern Monkeys Burnely is extremely distasteful - we are CONSIDERABLY richer than yow - Despite the fact Mittal has shown no willingness to put hand in pocket thus far, the working assumption being he will spunk gazillions in the promised land. Why doesn't he put his hand in his pocket for the much needed striker to guarantee the return to the big time?

- Good luck with the cup run and the league Port Vale, I hope the win against us will spur you on! A nice little pat on the head as they run back to little league. Yes, a win against the mighty R's will be one for the grandkids

Well done Sir.

@kingstevie

Ok, taking your example, How many of the Managers / Supporters / Players of Cardiff and Barnsley would have swapped a League Cup Winners Medal for promotion to the Premiership? Hand on Heart, I would say almost all of them. Thats the problem.

Stevie - depends on the club. Cardiff would probably have taken promotion having spent so long trying.

Knowing a few Albion fans I would guess they would have gone for the cup win, and saved the yo-yo effect for the following season.

And Barnsley fans to a MAN I can guarantee would have taken the Cup win. We would have taken a Cup win over relegation to L1 (on semi-final weekend we dropped into the bottom 3 for the first time that season, first weekend in April after 1 away win all season in the league. Following the defeat to cardiff at Wembley we won 3-0 at Watford on the Weds and 2-1 at Preston on the Sat and stayed up). If we'd got promoted, we'd have come down again. maybe in season 1, definitely by season 2.

The final point is that Pompey won the Cup that season, and the two Pompey season ticket holders I work with would still have taken that and everything that has happened since (assuming they survive) and UEFA Cup (Milan at Fratton) over another 6 seasons of finishing between 9th and 16th in the BEST League in the World.

Phak2 -

What a skewed reading of AlexQPR81UK's comment!

Saying you don't care about the Carling Cup doesn't mean that you are 'better' than the competiton. Quite the opposite. It's admitting that the squad is too weak to deal with the extra competition.

The fact that FIFA schedules internationsl matches on the same day suggests that THEY don't care about the Carling Cup - where is your ire towards them?

He does make some weak excuses about losing to Vale, though in his defence he says it's not good enough.

Your comment ragarding the premiership really is childish, but yes, it's been a long time - another reason why it's important to the suuporters.

Lastly, to read the 'two highlights' in the way you evidently have, takes such a stretch of the imagination I'm almost impressed.

Maybe you've missed an opportunity in politics?

@Imlessbiasedthanyou2

You can take anything out of context on the internet, that's the beauty of it. I was mainly only teasing, it was only actually the last sentence that wound me up.

Alright, that last sentence and the 4-0 hiding on Saturday ;)

Phack - 2

Oh, in that case, I'll just clippety clop off on my high horse...(-;

rontrotter - pleased to see that history does matter

prostheses - Thanks for sharing those WBA/Premiership thoughts. Several of my mates are Burnley fans and they hated last season and say they are looking forward to this season so much more.
Not much sign of those QPR billions yet though....

Imlessbiasedthanyou2 - thanks for sharing your internally-conflicted thoughts. You are right - it is a complicated equation. Maybe i am naive to believe that football should be about fun, enjoyment, entertainment, and not just about the pursuit of the Premiership and its gold.
Being a Vale fan, we have been lucky enough to have a sequence of managers who have believed in playing attractive football. Even if we've spent no time at all in the Premiership, we have won the LDV trophy, play-offs, some cup scalps. I wouldn't swap that for what a Bolton/Wigan/etc fan has had over the last decade or so (ie lots of Premiership football but precious little joy)

AlPetrov/QHK1876/PhilStoke -

"You give me hope and consolation, you give me the strength to carry on..."

qpdarloboy/shemnel - you make good points

youcantalan - thanks

johnny5eyes - but surely when you support a smaller team, many of the best days you look forward to/back on are cup ties away at glamorous big clubs

Phack2 - Not really like watching Brazil then....

Its disappointing but not unreasonable for Warnock to make the League Cup a low priority. The Championship season is 46 games. It is a long, hard slog.

Since Warnock knew that he (and presumably QPR) didn't care about the game in advance, would it not have been better to tell the fans beforehand, rather than in the programme notes, so that those fans who do care, and wanted to spend their money to watch, could decide that they'd rather spend it on a different game, that Warnock and the players actually did care about?

It's nice for Brentford to get further in a Cup competition than QPR again.

Personally I wish manager's would take all cup competitions seriously. Surely the momentum of a cup run - even for a club a *HUGE* as QPR - might help increase revenue; generally boost confidence etc.

Look at what happened to Villa when they surrendered in the Euro Vase. Their season fell apart after that and they must have had half-a-chance of winning the competiton. However winning things isn't what football is about anymore is it. It' about money. It's about swaggering about in the Premiership desperately trying to stay up (for most of the clubs) whilst the same five or six teams finish in the same five or six spots.

No place for romanticism here.

I can vouch that Rangers don't really care about the League Cup. They didn't turn up when Oxford beat them in the 1986 final at Wembley either!

I can vouch that Rangers don't really care about the League Cup. They didn't turn up when Oxford beat them in the 1986 final at Wembley either!

It's not just Warnock who doesn't care about the League Cup, judging from last night's crowds most football fans don't either.

Cup competitions are so 20th century.

As a darlington fan I'd love to be able to take the carling cup seriously. sniff.

I really hope whoever our manager is when the FA trophy games come around takes that seriously, and doesn't concentrate solely on promotion back to the league.

where has the writer been for the last 6 or 7 seasons? the attendances - and I would include Port Vale in this - for the early rounds of the carling cup have been woeful for years.

most championship clubs have fielded what might be termed 'weakened teams' for several years now. two main reasons...

1. it's the second game of the season - 2/3 days after the first. most managers want to ease their first team regulars in to the season. championship clubs are better placed to do this can clubs from league one and two due to bigger squads.

2. a strong championship team would expect to beat most teams from league one and two, so therefore feel they use players other than their 'stars', still win and progress in the tournament.

question for the blogger.... do port vale take the johnstone's paint trophy 'seriously'? do they put out their absolute strongest team for all matches in that competition, and not rest anyone?

Keybored, The rules of the Paint Pot state that you have to field a full-strength team. It's related to appearances during the season.

And I would love Stockport to do well in that too. Two Final defeats in the Auto Windscreens Shield (I think) still upsets me.