Will no one rid us of those National Front wreaths at the Cenotaph?

This is best ignored. It would be very difficult to set criteria whereby wreaths from one source are acceptable and those from others not. Wreaths from all political leaders have iffy motivations in my view. Simple contributions from the general public and wreaths from service orhganisations carry far more weight.

Despite the machinations of that illiterate fool G. Brown and his henchmen in herding us into Europe without a referendum, a vote or a kiss my ar$e, this is still a sort of democracy with freedom of speech and ideas. The BNP may not be your favourite brand, but it got a million votes last time out and it’s legal. How many people has the BNP ever killed in pointless or illegal wars, commemorated by those wreaths, compared to the present Establishment gang of unpleasant warmongers, crooks, ex-IRA terrorist murderers and manipulative liars?

I would suggest instead of making rules about who and who cannot lay wreaths, you should be commenting on the IRA supporters this weekend singing sectarian songs during the two minute tribute. We may not like the NF, but they have every right to lay a wreath as much as the next man has. We set a dangerous path if we choose, this group is right and this one is wrong. Democracy is more important.

Look at this video and comment on this…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&v=s5y2-U6Ll1Q

I strongly object to Gordon Brown laying a wreath, in view of his attitude to our troops, but I wouldn’t remove it. The NF may be an unpleasant bunch, but everyone has the right to leave a tribute at the Cenotaph.

Benedict

Leave this alone.

Any British citizen has as much right as you have to honour those who wasted their lives in a vain attempt to keep Britain free and democratic.
.

Yes, I agree with Kean here. If we allow Blair to stand at the cenotaph, shedding crocodile tears, then we can’t really complain at a discreet tribute from anyone else.

This is from the horse’s mouth – the BNP website – and gives a very good counter-argument to Mr Brogan’s disapproval of some wreaths at our war-memorials…

“…Remembrance Sunday parade in Westminster was blighted by the participation of the war criminal leaders of the Labour and Tory parties, who are collectively responsible for the deaths of 379 British soldiers in the illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Remembrance Sunday is the day when this nation commemorates and mourns all those who have made the ultimate sacrifice in the armed services. It should be a day of introspection and memory, but the participation of politicians who sent hundreds of our young soldiers to their deaths on the basis of pack of lies, is simply disgusting.

For Gordon Brown and David Cameron to be weeping crocodile tears at the cenotaph — while their political decisions are the direct cause of hundreds of deaths — smacks of political opportunism of the worst degree.

The British National Party was the very first political party in Britain to point out that the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan were based on a pack of lies.

Even the Liberal Democrats, who later voted against the illegal wars, have changed their opinion. Vince Cable, Lib-Dem front bencher, said he was in favour of continued British deployment in Afghanistan during a recent BBC radio interview.

It was obvious from the very beginning that there were no British interests to be served by sending troops to Iraq or Afghanistan.

Furthermore, it was also obvious that the “reasons” which the Labour and Tory parties advanced for the war were nothing but childish and easily disprovable lies.

Apart from the 179 British soldiers killed in Iraq, the 200 killed in Afghanistan and the thousands of seriously wounded, the Tory and Labour criminals are also responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi and Afghani peasants.

The BNP has vowed never to forget — or forgive — the Tory and Labour traitors who have caused so much death and destruction.

Messrs Brown, Blair, William Hague and David Cameron all bear joint responsibility for their ongoing crime against humanity. One day they will be held accountable for their murderous activities before an international tribunal.

This promise, along with the solemn commemoration of those who have died defending this country, forms the basis of our Remembrance Sunday ceremonies.

* The Remembrance Sunday parades around the country took on an even more poignant note with the news that yet another British soldier from 2nd Battalion the Rifles, was killed in an explosion near Sangin, in central Helmand province, yesterday afternoon.

According to earlier army intelligence reports, the majority of electronic components for these roadside bombs originates from Islamists residing in Britain. These components, which include adapted mobile phones, trigger devices and other electronics, are purchased in Britain…”

I’m surprised you wrote this article Benedict, everyone has a right to respect the dead. As for one of the posts commenting that the bomb components were purchased in the UK have you checked the prices in Asian stores? Far cheaper to purchase them from Taiwan.

Quote: From the Jonathan Isaby report.

“National Front ex-servicemen”

Perhaps the clue is in the note attached to the wreath?

I may be thick but I thought all the equality legislation introduced over many years was introduced to prevent inequality? Are you telling me that those who think different to you are incapable of having respect for those who made the final sacrifice for their country?

It seems no-one could rid us of an unelected PM or prevent him from signing a treaty that most didn’t agree with, so who is this someone who will take affirmative action?.

If you felt so strongly that the presence of the wreaths was an abomination, why didn’t you have the moral courage to remove them yourself? Are you hoping that some self-righteous drunken student will go and kick them to pieces or piss all over them?

Just let them be and stop building the BNP up beyond their desserts.

How do we know that the BNP members who placed the wreaths were not ex-soldiers or persons who had lost a loved one in the conflicts since 1914?

What I really object to is seeing politicians, especially those who have never heard a shot fired in anger or donned a uniform, poncing about in front of the cameras as if they cared.

Except for politicos who have served their country in the face of the enemy the remainder should be barred; and the official wreath laying should be conducted by HM and representatives of the heads of states of the Commonwealth.

Other than those and the ex-servicemen and women on the parade, the general public (even gutless politicians) should be allowed to lay wreaths in a private manner after the ceremony is over.

Here we go again! Fascism wrapped up in moral indignation!If we made rules (based on decency) about who could lay wreaths at the cenotaph then Brown and Blair would be barred as a starter.I don’t know where Mr Brogan is coming from, but I hardly think he has the right to dictate on who should or should not show their respect to our war dead. I feel distaste toward Mr Brogan, but I could hardly demand that he is banned from the newspaper on that account. He should grow up and learn to appreciate the very few freedoms we still have in this country.

Ironic, isn’t it, that Brogan equates the NF and the BNP with Nazis, yet demands the removal of their wreaths, which were laid in memory of those who died fighting the Nazis.
A cynic might conclude that Churchill was right when he said that fascism will return in the guise of anti-fascism.
The selective disapproval and sentiments of Brogan, and those of the other hypocritical usual suspects, seem to confirm Churchill was, indeed, right.
And no, I’m not a NF supporter – I just enjoy exposing and confronting hypocrisy by those who feel our freedoms and democracy must be subject to their approval and on their terms only.

“First they came for …

Benedict,
How strange that you chose to publish this non story especially after attending Brown’s press conference. There must be many more newsworthy stories or are you trying to deflect attention away from the woes of our useless PM. Are you seeking the job as Brown’s director of communications by any chance?

I consider the BNP to have a damn sight more right to lay wreaths than any member of the LibLabCon party, who are traitors to a man.

Whatever else may be said about the BNP (and there is a great deal), at least they stick up for Great Britain, which is a damn sight more than can be said for Brown, Cameron, Clegg et al.

As for Winston Churchill, a quick perusal of practically any of his literary output will indicate his inclinations vis-a-vis immigrants and immigration in general, and as sure as Hell he wasn’t remotely sympathetic to multiculturalism!

I can no longer be bothered to rise to the poison and bile directed at the British National Party. Newspaper sales are falling off a cliff edge and it serves them right. Not long until the dole queue Brogan.

What a load of bollox this article is. First off those wreaths are nothing to do with the National Front. Try putting a pair of specs on and washing your dirty Marxist mouth out before making political slurs over who YOU deem acceptable to pay respects to a memorial of our war dead.

What a cretin you are!

This shows us what a nasty little fascist this Brogan character is. Is he even british?

The wreathes are laid in memory of our fallen thousand of BNP family including mine have fallen,we have the rite to remember therm! DO not let me catch any one removing any memorial from anyone from our cenotaphs>I will give you hell

I cannot believe what I am reading I am flabbergasted.

Mr Brogan, you actually want to remove a wreath from a war memorial? Are you seriously suggesting that British citizens who have different political views than yourself should not be allowed to honour those who made the ultimate sacrifice?

This article is offensive and should be removed and Mr Brogan should make an immediate apology.

rjaar at 2.56pm best expresses my feelings on this issue.

I respect Benedict, and remember that this is his blog where he is entitled to express his personal opinions, quite apart from his professional reporter’s job. A journalist is entitled to free speech, and he defends this tradition every time he writes an inconvenient truth or facts or figures…or just a jolly bit of ‘inside’ gossip.

Ultimately, I do believe that free speech is more important than differences of opinion, and ‘lickylips’ puts it beautifully when s/he quotes a famous poem: ‘First, they came for…’

To which I would add the conclusion:’…and then they came for me…’

We’re all very upset at the moment over the conduct of the war, and politicians’ horrible disrespect towards brave soldiers, past and present.

‘Actions speak louder than words.’ Our politicians line their own pockets with ill-gotten expenses equal to more than a soldier and his family earn, although they lay down their lives for us. We respect them. Politicians use them. There is the disgrace.

The wreathes are laid in memory of our fallen thousand of BNP family including mine have fallen,we have the rite to remember therm!

Yeah, they fell at the hands of your heroes in the Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe and Waffen-SS.

They must be spinning in their graves, at the thought of being associated with a neo-Nazi political group.

I venture to suggest that most of the thinking people in this country are appalled at the disrespect shown by Brown’s careless letter of condolence to the grief stricken mother of another one of our brave men, but it was her son, her child, her darling boy. He is not a number, another letter to write, another item to be ticked off the list of a busy politician. Her tear soaked face, trembling voice, the utter devastation she feels would have been known to any compassionate person BEFORE the brave soldier returned home in a coffin.

But, oh no, busy politicians have to be told how to write letters, told when to bow their heads, told when their offence against decent people is so great that they ought to stand up in public, and apologise.

The people know how to behave, instinctively. The politicians are number counters – votes, expenses, body bags…it’s all the same to them.

Since when did belonging to an unpopular political party preclude anybody from showing their respect and gratitude to those who gave their lives in defence of our liberty. The main perpetrator in betraying all that they fought for, by giving away our hard won liberty to a totalitarian state, had the audacity to lay a wreath, and refused to bow his head.

Since when did belonging to an unpopular political party preclude anybody from showing their respect and gratitude to those who gave their lives in defence of our liberty.>/i>

When the hierarchy of that unpopular political party all hero-worship the very regime that tried to take away our liberty.

I’ve been thinking about this for a couple of hours. Mr Brogan is not silly nor is he naive. When he penned this article he knew that most of the responses would be exactly as they are. The question here is why? Why did he do it? The same thing has happened in the Daily Mail today. They report that Nick Griffin has attended Wootten Bassett and tried to ‘Hijack’ the event. The responses that got was also predictable. Is this a surreptitious means of judging the mood of the proles?

beaton,
You must be referring to the Stalinists, the very same one’s who chose their next generation, urged them to stay at OxBridge or Fettes, get their degrees, then be chosen by the unions like the TGWU, headed by Jack who took his cash from his KGB handler in London in order that their prodiges could infiltrate every level of the British establishment in education, the judiciary, politics et cetera in order to carry on Stalin’s wish for a one-party state.

Yeah, beaton. Your unpopular political party hero-worshipped Stalin, and they will take liberty away off to the new Stalinists: the EUSSR.

Now, be off with you. We are mourning our dead while you admire their killers.

Arthur.
Yes.
However, I refuse to believe that Benedict is duplicitous.

Cyndi

Thanks for the reply. Duplicitous decidedly not.. clandestine? Maybe.

Arthur,
I think your name places you in a certain generation, and ask your forgiveness if I am ’stereotyping’.
Benedict is a journalist, not a nanny, an apparatchik, ‘an educated fool’ or ‘useful idiot’, as Lenin described certain types.

Arthur,
Please don’t shoot the messenger. We are all human, and flawed. Point is: what values do we defend? Journalists are observers, not politicians, and they are as susceptible to manipulation by the harlots in politics as anyone else.

Forgive Benedict. He’s more brave than you might think, but he does have a heart too, as today’s blog topic shows.

‘To err is human. To forgive, divine.’

Beaton, you’re a tosser. Go and crawl back under your stone.

Cyndi

You seem to be misunderstanding me. After posting my first comment I was concerned that someone like Benedict Brogan could consider challenging other peoples integrity in the laying of a wreath. As far as I know these wreaths were placed after the ceremony. If this is correct it would imply to me that the people laying the wreaths did not do so in order to make a political gain or statement. Secondly, one of the wreaths was from ‘National Front Ex Servicemen’. I can’t imagine that Benedict would really be offended at ex-servicemen wanting to show respect this way irrelevant of their political views. Thus I could only think that this article is a red herring. A ploy to test the views of the readers. Unless, of course, Orwells ‘newspeak’ has reached out and Benedict has at last succumbed?

beaton….

You ought to be..

Arthur,
It’s ‘groupthink’, ‘newspeak’, anything that will further the aims of the ruthless Stalinist Class of ‘97, no matter what happens to the British, the last gem to be bought, and sold, most recently by the Lisbon Treaty.

Please don’t blame Benedict or other free thinkers. Time. This all takes time. I believe in The Constitution, The Declaration of Independence. That’s my ancestry, born out of deep respect for my hereditary cousins in Britain.

Obama didn’t turn up to the Berlin Wall party for a reason beyond petty modern EU politics. It would have incensed his New England voters if he had done so. And affronted the others in the rest of the European diaspora who fled to America from Stalin’s grip.

The EUSSR is an affront to democracy. Only England, dear England, is falling for it.

Benedict

Phil Kean on Nov 10th, 2009 at 1:04 pm has it right.

Yes, generalfeldr,
Phil got it right. I will never understand why the English, Irish, Scots dwell on little things when the whole world is relying on them to be big, give the world a reason to believe that there is some small country that will be true to the beliefs that made democracy, free speech, happen, for better or worse. Always for better as time goes on. That’s human nature. The contest of ideas.

Night night. I leave Benedict and good journalists with your wise counsel.

Benedict Brogan

I suppose one could just lean over the barrier and remove them.

Well, if you are thinking of doing this, just hope to GOD that I don’t catch you, for it would be the last barrier you ever leaned over!!

cyndi

Yeah, beaton. Your unpopular political party hero-worshipped Stalin, and they will take liberty away off to the new Stalinists: the EUSSR

The historical leadership of the Labour Party – Attlee, Gaitskell, Callaghan, Foot – was anti-Stalinist, and anti-communist.

Gaitskell and Foot were diametrically opposed to British entry to the free-market European Community, unlike MacMillan, Heath, Thatcher, Major and Cameron. Callaghan, Gaitskell and Wilson were Atlanticists.

We are mourning our dead while you admire their killers.

Erm, no. I don’t admire fascists, or Nazis – who killed hundreds of thousands of British troops – unlike Nick Griffin and his buddies.

Do you really not see the sick irony of a Nazi sympathiser laying wreaths for soldiers killed by Nazis?

I can hardly believe I`m reading this article. A mainstream journalist deliberately inciting people to steal Remembrance Day wreaths laid at the Cenotaph by ex-servicemen. What a truly despicable piece of slime you are Mr Brogan.

Benedict,

The Cenotaph was erected in 1920, replacing a temporary structure put up in 1919, and above all the Glorious Dead were those who fought in the First World War. Unless you reckon that the Kaiser was a Nazi, they simply did not die “to stop this kind of poison from spreading”.

Nor was the Second World War “a war against fascism”, as some historical revisionists now try to portray it; if Germany and the Soviet Union had not invaded Poland, there would have been no war.

The German Nazis could have pursued their Nazi policies within the territory they controlled, and likewise the Italian fascists, and however bestial their actions Britain and France would not have gone to war to stop them.

But Hitler was bent on territorial expansion and the domination of first Europe and ultimately the world, and precipitated a world war which led to the defeat and occupation of Germany, when the barbaric crimes which had been committed were fully exposed – on film and through extensive official documentation, as well as through physical evidence and eyewitness reports.

On the other hand, the barbaric crimes committed by the Soviets were not exposed in the same way, and in fact they’re still gradually coming to light after the collapse of the USSR.

Look at the indictments at Nuremburg:

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/NurembergIndictments.html

“Conspiracy to Wage Aggressive War”, “Waging Aggressive War, or “Crimes Against Peace” “, “War Crimes” and “Crimes Against Humanity”.

Charges which made no reference to the ideological motivation of the perpetrators, and which could also have been laid against the leading figures of the USSR – except that it was still our gallant Soviet ally, just, and so there was a Communist on the tribunal and none in the dock.

Note also that two countries with fascist dictatorships, Spain and Portugal, remained neutral during the war. In the summer of 1945 the western Allies could have used their enormous assembled forces to overthrow those fascist regimes, but made no attempt to so – indeed Portugal became a founder member of NATO.

The Cenotaph now commemorates all those who died defending this country and its freedom, including those who died fighting the Japanese, and those who died fighting the Communists in Korea and in Malaya and elsewhere.

And what do we now find? That the person voted the most powerful man in this country in a BBC poll a few years ago was an avowed Maoist in his youth – that’s EU Commission President Barroso, of course.

‘I suppose one could just lean over the barrier and remove them.’

I suppose one could, but then one would need to be careful one wasn’t left facing a removal of quite a different kind should one ‘accidently’ get said wreath lodged firmly up one’s backside in the process.

Oh dear Mr Brogan, it looks like you’ve really lost the plot. Since when is it wrong for someone to leave flowers by a graveside apart from the actual murderer. Your anger should follow the path of the above/below comments and be directed towards the true bad-guys.

”They are on the west side of the Cenotaph, two feet away from the wreaths laid by Gordon Brown and the other political leaders.”

That’s terrible, I’m sure if the NF had seen them they would have placed there wreaths round the other side, to avoid been associated with such a bunch.

How about the fact some high ranking Labour party members are former members of the Communist Party of Great Britain?

Heres a quick History Lesson;

During the Korean War (Which killed 63,000 British soldiers)the Communist Party of Great Britain not only SUPPORTED North Korea/China they also ACTED AS SPIES!

It was one of the most vile and traitorous act ever committed by British citizens, as most of the spying was done on the families of P.O.W! This information was used by the North Koreans in order to blackmail our troops into compliance!

(See No Mercy, No Leniency by Cyril Cunningham)

Take for example John Reid who has served in a number of Cabinet positions, including Home Secretary, DEFENCE Secretary and Health Secretary.

He is a former C.P.G.B member and according to George Galloway,”taught a whole generation of Labour activists, including yours truly, the entire IRA songbook”.

That’s right the Labour parties former DEFENCE SECRETARY, not only was a member of a party that committed treasonable deeds during the Korean war, but also liked to sing songs glorifying terrorists who were killing British troops!

I wonder what Mr Brogan has to say about that…….

Not that many, Yorkshirenationalist:

http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Databases/Korea/index.html

“The Korean War was the military test of the United Nations and also the last martial adventure of the old Commonwealth. The American Department of Defence acknowledges that almost 40,000 of its servicemen died, either in battle or of other causes. British casualties were 1,078 killed in action, 2,674 wounded and 1,060 missing or taken prisoner.

The true casualty figures for the North and South Koreans and Chinese will never be known. It is estimated that some 46,000 South Korean soldiers were killed and over 100,000 wounded. The Chinese are estimated by the Pentagon as having lost over 400,000 killed (including Mao Tse-tung’s son) and 486,000 wounded, with over 21,000 captured. The North Koreans lost about 215,000 killed, 303,000 wounded and over 101,000 captured or missing.”

That’s a lot of lives sacrificed in the attempted furtherance of an insane ideology espoused by the man who has just been re-appointed as President of the European Commission.

As for hijacking Soames his position is untenable as the responses here make abundantly clear

http://playpolitical.typepad.com/uk_conservative/2009/11/nicholas-soames-talks-about-his-grandfather-winston-churchill-and-why-he-would-have-loathed-the-bnp-.html

I was directed here from a link on the BNP website. After reading the article I decided to register and comment. Writing this on the laptop but when i registered the e-mail asking for confirmation came through on my Blackberry “thingy” (a journalist should know the difference between a handheld computer/phone and a “thingy”). Anyhow cut to the chase. If benedict is so concerned with any British Nationalist laying wreaths out of respect for fallen heroes past and present, can he answer me two questions please. 1. how come you did not show a picture of the wreath that he laid at the cenotaph, and 2. If you are so interested in respect for the fallen, why did you not write an article about the English Defence Leagues 2 minute silence for the fallen in Manchester when Scumbag UAF shouted abuse all the way through the 2 minute silence?.