Andy Burnham: 'I want a clear break from this way of running the Labour party'

Do I really care about Andy Burnham?
No!!
Loyalty to Labour - was to get rid of Gordon Brown! Lloyalty was not allowing an incompotent person to lead the party or country.

The People's Party..........perleeze!

Another professional politician wanting to climb the greasy pole.

Note to politicians....the word "passion" needs to be retired a.s.a.p.

Oh....I cannot be bothered.

'Aspirational Socialism' Give me a break pleez! A contradiction in terms surely. If the country had wanted more of New Labour's marxist authoritarianism and bong utopianism then it would have won the election.

Aspirational Socialism sounds like the kind of meaningless nu-speak that top ad-man Tony Blair would spout; and look where it got you. And despite Andy's posture off the outsider on the inside he knows very well that the party is riven down the middle with Old Labour Broons v Nu Labour Blairs.

The thing about principles Andy is that there are so many to choose from.

New Labour not commenting on wealth at the highest levels!?

You made it quite clear that your party was intensely relaxed by the rich.
Why didn't Polly pick him up on that one?

He's right about one thing though. The incestuous metropolitan political journalist class is all about who you know. Journalists must have known for years about the 'Expenses Scandal' gravy train but said nothing.

Another Blair in the making, they should elect Diane Abbot at least she has balls

I really really want him to win, because I've got a tenner on him at 15-1.

Don't care about his politics, or indeed the politics of any of the other NL cohorts, but he seems like he might be a "Cameron" for NL, and that's worth a punt.

LOSt me a s soon as he talks about "foot on a ladder"> Actually, lost me on the first sentence - clean break with style of politics.....

We dont need a Style break we need a principle break, an ethical break, a moral break and an ideological break.

ANd as Polly says - Oxbridge...... say s it all really

Having been a loyal Guardianista for nearly 34 years, I have not bought a copy for nearly three months. Their editorial slap-in-the-face has not been explained nor atoned.

Anyone else match this?

Andy Burnham is a particularly nasty breed of new labourite, check out his voting record.

Voted very strongly for introducing ID cards.
Voted very strongly for introducing a smoking ban.
Voted very strongly for Labour's anti-terrorism laws.
Voted moderately against laws to stop climate change.
Voted very strongly for the Iraq war.
Voted very strongly against an investigation into the Iraq war.
Voted moderately against a transparent Parliament.
Voted very strongly for introducing foundation hospitals.
Voted very strongly for replacing Trident.
Voted strongly for introducing student top-up fees.

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/andy_burnham/leigh

also on expenses

Expenses claims

The Daily Telegraph's revelation of expenses claims by Members of Parliament showed that Burnham requested Commons Fees Office for the £16,644 cost of renovations and work on a London flat he was buying. The claims, which included a new kitchen were at first rejected. Burnham had written three notes asking for the money to be paid, including one at Christmas 2005 complaining "Otherwise I might be in line for divorce!" Ultimately the Fees Office accepted the claim and reimbursed Burnham. The Fees Office refused to pay a June 2006 claim for mortgage interest which covered both the Lambeth flat and Burnham's constituency home, and also a mortgage claim which included capital repayment. The rules allowed reimbursement of mortgage interest only and on one home at a time. Burnham also attempted to claim £19.99 for a bathrobe from IKEA, which was rejected by officials; Burnham said it was a "genuine oversight".[11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Burnham

A right winger in left wing clothing and one of the main architects of labours draconian nanny statism.

Also on his wiki it doesnt mention him ever having any job outside of politics.

TerryWalpole

Anyone who claims New Labour was Marxist needs to stop ranting for a minute and actually think about the tenets of Marxism versus the policies of New Labour.

New Labour was authoritarian, yes - but authoritarianism is abhorred by most socialists. And shifting from direct to indirect taxation (as New Labour did) is hardly the sign of a socialist government. An authoritarian government with neoliberal economic policy is precisely the opposite of what a Marxist would want.

There is no longer a party to represent those with such views, sadly.

Hey Johng10 - Does Diane Abbott have Balls by the balls??

This Labour lot are a load of Twanker, Tories in disguise. I don't know why they just don't come out and admit it. We need some good old socialism to put this country right. Lets get back to the 70's and 80's when you knew a Labour supporter by the fact that he was on strike. Wimps the lot of them.

Oh dear - he sounds a bit "chippy", doesn't he? He "tried" to become a journalist (obviously didn't bother to check that pay scales had stood still for 15+ years), and "thought doors would automatically open" for him after "surviving" three years at freaking Cambridge. Tip to Eyebrows: don't just let your personal "hard lesson" (which didn't come into your EARLY TWENTIES, btw) inform your politics, but what you can see around you. Don't let it get too personal, otherwise you might start doing the "right thing", like Blair.

The reasons New Labour lost the election were:

1. Iraq
2. Civil liberties/nanny state/overlegislating
3. Brown

Anybloodyway - when we elect a new government/leader, why do they all (Cameron's doing it now) arrogantly assume we've voted for some bolted-on "idea" as well. Just sound governance would do. Hearing about Big Society, "Aspirational Socialism" or whatever, makes me just want to roll my eyes... like Diane Abbott might.

Is it because Andy Burham does not believe in the NHS and prefers to oursouce to "healthecase companies" like Atos Origin? You remember Atos Origin!

Dec 2009 Cancer patients threatened
Nov 2008 Loss of confidential data
Apr 2007 Patients recalled for scans
May 2006 Errors block benefits
Mar 2005 DWP hires Atos Origin

See
http://www.whywaitforever.com/dwpatosbusiness.html

How many fact finding trips has Atos paid for the influential people in the DoH and DWP when Andy was in charge? It is good to see them listed as attending the Atos AGM and other events. Atos make the highest margin from the DWP than from anyone else in Europe. Who introduced Atos to the DoH? This tainted ex senior minister should not be given the time of day.

Trust a man for what he does and not what he says he will do. His poor record speaks for itself. Adults, like myself, with a primary brain tumour now have a12.3% chance of surviving 5 years previously it was 12.6%. Andy Burnham made the help service worse. Yes he can listen to his friends Lords Mandelson and Alaistair Campbell and spin weaves of deception. Go through medical condition after medical condition and see how Andy Burnham has made things worse. Is this tainted incompetent so and so the person to lead the Labour party? I say never....but I will likely be dead before the Labour leadership election and it will be partly as a result of the incompetence of this buffoon.

And the Non-entity of the year award goes to..... yours truly A Burnhum...

Burnham wants to censor the internet. That tells you everything you need to know about this horrible, disconnected, authoritarian scumbag.

Good luck to him. Its typical of the arrogant "guardian readers" to have a go at him and some of the comments here are just sour grapes. He has what it takes to be leader and hopefully the next PM. He`s intelligent, articulate, charismatic, attractive and a socialist. You`ve got my vote Andy.

.

He`s intelligent, articulate, charismatic, attractive and a socialist.

He does have beautiful eyes.

Sounds pretty sensible to me too.

For the pedants:
Sounds pretty sensible to me, too.

ANDY BURNHAM UP IN SMOKE
Voted very strongly for introducing ID cards.
Voted very strongly for introducing a smoking ban.
Voted very strongly for Labour's anti-terrorism laws.
Voted moderately against laws to stop climate change.
Voted very strongly for the Iraq war.
Voted very strongly against an investigation into the Iraq war.
Voted moderately against a transparent Parliament.
Voted very strongly for introducing foundation hospitals.
Voted very strongly for replacing Trident.
Voted strongly for introducing student top-up fees.

I remember Burnham as a Blairite not so long ago. All of a sudden he's talking up his working class values.
Oh is that a flying pig?

I have seen all candidates over the last few month at various LP love in's and if I am honest I found Burnham to be head and shoulders ahead above the rest.

In fact after last weeks Question Time I am annoyed with myself because I am beginning to believe he is the real thing.

Andy Burnham will win because he has very real traction with ordinary LP members outside London

BURNHAM'S ON FIRE

The Labour leadership election is just totally irrelevant and Burnham like the other talentless contenders, has not got a cat in hells chance of ever being PM. In fact I would suggest the next Labour PM has not been born yet.

Polly? Andy?

Polly, who? Andy, who?

Yesterday's people. Yesterday's politics.

Who cares? We've moved on. Thank goodness. RIP NuLabour.

Never, ever again!

Maybe the next leader of the Labour party should be elected on the basis of who can cram the most cliches into a Polly Toynbee interview. Double points to AB for 'aspirational socialism' though, a true classic that one.

"I want a clean break" means "please don't associate me with the unpopular Labour government". I wonder how many will fall for it.

The "People's Party?"?? Burnham?

This is the 'candidate' who...Voted very strongly for replacing Trident/Voted very strongly for the Iraq war/Voted very strongly against an investigation into the Iraq war/Voted very strongly for introducing ID cards. (source: http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/andy_burnham/leigh)

He's having a laugh isn't he?

I cannot understand the tone of all these comments. We have a government in power that is following the policies of 60 years ago. Talking about 2 year university degrees, investing in the education of the priviliged while cutting attempts to improve the schools of the ordinary children.
I am 67 years old and we are kicking Labour just like we did in the sixties while now we now that under Wilson was one of the great governments of the twentieth century. I wonder if many people have any idea of the tremendous amount of reforming legislation that the Blairite Labour government put through. The Conservatives have learnt nothing from their time in opposition. They have a powerful rabid conservative right wing who will pressure Cameron to take on board their old fashioned authoratarian policies. Who ever leads the labour party will look at why they lost the election and make the real changes necessary. The Conservatives on the other hand believe that they have a right to rule and how they rule is for them and only them to decide. The rubbish that is the general electorate in their point of view should just shut up. Kicking Labour is easy have we all forgotten the continuous growth we had until the financiers of Walll Street and The City nearly destroyed our economies? Now we are kicking Brown for the actions that saved the country from meltdown and saved millions of jobs. The City screws up and the public looks to the Conservatives, the natural friends of the financiers? No I believe the British people want Labout to get back on track and a spell in opposition to rethink will be a prelude to winning the next election

It was obvious that the British public would never vote for Brown, a glotch-eyed Scotchman - not my view of him but the way he was perceived.

It's easy to snipe....but a good looking, articulate politician with an attractive regional accent fits the bill for Labour and if they want the most electable leader, this is the guy.

I quite like Burnham, his rhetoric is promising, certainly closer to the socialism Labour is (or was) supposed to represent. Given the somewhat varied nature of Burnham's voting record it may be naive to expect him to deliver on his positions, still it would similarly naive to suggest that he wouldn't have been leant on substantially to tow the party line, therefore his voting record probably doesn't necessarily represent his own beliefs.

Why is he wearing eyeliner?

Burnham wants to censor the internet. That tells you everything you need to know about this horrible, disconnected, authoritarian scumbag.

@Labourmakeshistory

There's no pleasing some moderates
Though you wonder why they do insist
On yelling abuse at the poor man's gates
Are you a Big Society-ist ?

WelshBlogger

"Yesterday's people. Yesterday's politics.
Who cares? We've moved on. Thank goodness."

Oh really? We've moved on have we? What because some turncoat Liberals fancied swapping their integrity for a frontbench seat? Or because Govey promises us "free" schools in old shops? Blatantly privatise the NHS? Even Thatch didn't attempt that one.

It feels more like the Back to The 80s to me.

...and yes, New Labour is dead, and good riddance. If the ConDems keep digging this hole, they'll be dead soon too.... once the people realise that it's going to affect them personally, rather than someone they read about in their newspaper.

I have to say I like the cut of Andy Burnham's jib, much more than the Millibands, Abbott and Balls. He's unambiguously critical on the 10p tax rate cut, and of the failure to introduce a financial transaction cut. He pinpoints pretty well where Labour went wrong, and because he wasn't at the centre of the New Labour crowd, it sounds credible. By contrast, the Millibands both basically played the 'Olly off The Thick of It' role to Blair and Brown.

Ok, the 'aspirational socialism' soundbite is a bit hackneyed, but certainly no more than the 'Big Society'. 'Socialism' is perceived as controlling and stifling, whereas 'aspiration' seems in tune with the zeitgeist - maybe the positive connotations of 'aspiration' would mask the stench of 'socialism', and the concept may actually sell, or at the very least, sell more than the Millibands.

Unpacking his philosophy is a bit more problematic at this point - I'd guess it hinges on free enterprise with heavy taxation on the top end - and Polly doesn't probe it too hard, she's basically sympathetic. I'm not sure how Burnham stands up to more intrusive grilling, and that's partly because he's been sidelined in this race - I reckon that's a shame, because the other runners are such complete charisma and substance - free zones.

Polly asked some good questions and Andy came over quite well IMHO. I quite liked the fact the he doesn't shy away from the term socialism, albeit "aspirational socialism". I also liked the fact he touched in things like financial transactions tax, land tax, etc. and the open admission that Labour had made mistakes - including the arrogance, self indulgence and elitism. But best of all, he seems to have ideas about how Labour should change, rather than just vaguely suggesting that this might happen.

It's probably still social democracy, but with a good dose of socialism. Given all the viable alternatives - across the mainstream political spectrum, it seems to be quite an attractive and coherent message.

Well done Polly, good one Andy.

So the has been UK communist party, formerly led by Gordon Brown (the man who busted the UK economy), wants a new incompetent at the helm.

Does anyone really care?

This is a debate that should be heard - Andy Burnham has put himself up for Labour leader, and it is good to hear what he has to say. For those on the left who want change, this is an important election. I welcome his contribution.

Others here are right to highlight his voting record, he needs to be challenged on this. However, I think much of what he talks about is welcome. If him being leader takes Labour back to being a 'real' Labour party, one for the 21st century, then I hope to see him win.

It is important because we have a coalition government set upon dismantling the welfare state, who have shifted the debate on the deficit to one where we 'cannot afford public services', who seek to punish the poor whilst the very wealthiest are barely touched - we need a Labour party to stand up for the >85% of the population who are of no, or modest means.

So the has been UK communist party, formerly led by Gordon Brown

Good afternoon USA.

Andy Burnham comes across as a nice guy, sittings and smiling as he does, but I just don't think he has the steel to stand up to wealth and power. You need someone with ideological backbone and someone showing visceral anger for the vicious cuts taking place. He'd be a less middle class Nick Clegg if he got into power - done up like a kipper by the establishment.

As for TerryWalpole and 'marxist authoritarianism' - authoritarian New Labour may have but Marxist! Groucho Marxist perhaps

MaddAdam
20 Jul 2010, 9:10PM

I quite like Burnham, his rhetoric is promising, certainly closer to the socialism Labour is (or was) supposed to represent. Given the somewhat varied nature of Burnham's voting record it may be naive to expect him to deliver on his positions, still it would similarly naive to suggest that he wouldn't have been leant on substantially to tow the party line, therefore his voting record probably doesn't necessarily represent his own beliefs.

Remember how we ignored our misgivings about Blair using excuses like that. I'm not sure about Burnham. I'd prefer Ed Milliband or Dianne Abbott

Out of all the candidates Andy Burnham would possibly be the best choice to help rebuild Labour from the grass-roots up. All of the others seem too closely connected to the London-centric power-elite, both personally and in their style and image. He comes across as genuine, decent, humble, principled and with a shared awareness of how fed up many people are with elitism.

Back in 1997 it made sense for New Labour to rebrand itself as "modern metrosexual liberal London-friendly and neo-liberal". Times are changed and there is no point trying to occupy the same space as the LD-Con government (which is itself trying to look more like New Labour than Old Conservative). Andy Burnham could well be the right person to appeal to "middle england / the regions / etc" and out-flank the LD-Con who will inherit anger against both their own policies and the previous New Labour stylings as well.

It's true however that Burnham maybe isn't yet the 'big figure' that could become Prime Minister, which would be a problem if there was an early general election. It would also present a problem of how Labour would be able to switch back to one of their "big guns". Burnham would need enough time to build up a power base in the grass roots and unions and be able to somehow win over the existing 'labour mafia' - what could he offer them?

So, he probably won't win because it will wreck too many well planned poitical careers and upset too many cosy networks and vested interests. This is probably the biggest argument that it should be simply one-member-one-vote instead of the current stitch-up they have now. However if he gives them enough of scare maybe they will try and steal his idea for rebranding Labour?

I find it hard to take Labour seriously with all these pretend socialists at the top.

If we had PR Labour could split into it's left wing and centre factions without conceding the chance to be in government.

Polly gets it wrong about Labour members reading the Guardian. Some may.

It is over the heads of the majority with little to say to the larger number of people who voted Labour. They read the Sun, Mirror, Daily Mail whatever.

As the only Non London based candidate he will get my vote even though my preferred candidate is London Based and not running.

Their is only ONE reason Labour lost the Election - GoBr.
He destroyed any chance the Labour Party had of becoming the Natural Party of Government over his many years as Chancellor and finally put the nail in the coffin by his performance as PM.

There is no preference by the Electorate for Majority Conservative or Labour Government. We were lucky this time that our stupid First Past the Post System did not deliver a Tory Majority, the next one may.

The Electorate deserve a MORE proportional system so that we can get more sensible Government based on on Consensus Politics when most MPs can agree on a Policy. If they cannot then it is not worth doing.

I'm sick of Strong Government -got us where we are today.

nash21 wrote

Loyalty to Labour - was to get rid of Gordon Brown! Lloyalty was not allowing an incompotent person to lead the party or country.

If you're going to call someone else incompetent, you should really know how to spell the word.

TerryWalpole wrote

If the country had wanted more of New Labour's marxist authoritarianism and bong utopianism then it would have won the election.

If you think New Labour is "Marxist" you have no idea what "Marxist" means.

Aspirational Socialism sounds like the kind of meaningless nu-speak that top ad-man Tony Blair would spout

So a bit like "the Big Society" and "taking power from Whitehall and giving it to the man and woman in the street" then?

You made it quite clear that your party was intensely relaxed by the rich.
Why didn't Polly pick him up on that one?

Fair point.

Voting "Very Strongly"?

I thought you just voted for or against ?

Does not "aspirational socialist" mean Conservative?

Do ou remember the long waits in hospital A & E? Labour set a target of 4 hours in A & E by inventing a new waiting area called Emergency Assessment Unit. I was emergency admitted at 07:30 to my local A & E. Within 4 hours (5 minutes before) I was moved to the Emergency Assessment Unit. I was seen by the senior consultant 22:00. All beds in the hospital were full and as I had upped my medication which reduced the fits and extreme pain I agreed to go home. There were too many very sick people for my conscious to demand attention despite my pain. There were not even enough clean pillows for the people yelling in the EAU. I gave up my pillow to an elderly gentlemen in extreme discomfort. The few nurses and doctors were run off their feet. I cannot speak too highly of these wonderful people. The people on the sharp end. The people punched by drunks. The people calming the distressed.

The EAU reminded me of the Do Long bridge scene in the film "Apocalypse Now" when the Captain kept asking who was in charge. In the hospital it is nice to see those coloured charts on the walls showing all targets being met. In the film every day the bridge is built and every day the VC blow it up. In the EAU every day the charts are filled in by numerous managers and administrative types ...yet no progress is made.

So Andy Burnham in his major chance of showing he is capable of leadership, as Secretary of State, made the DoH far worse than it was before, outsourced to healthcare companies whose profits rose massively and wasted vast amounts on managers who drew charts each day showing how good they were. Remember MRSA. Remember C. Difficile. A good leader knows when he is way out of his depth. A poor leader is blind to the evidence. Andy Burnham you have no leadership abilities, so step aside. I doubt you could run a scout troop.

UlsterAtheist:

If we had PR Labour could split into it's left wing and centre factions without conceding the chance to be in government.

Indeed. There are IMHO many advantages to PR, and that is just one of the potential benefits.

I'd like to give Andy Burnham a clean break along with the other failed ex ministers and ego Abbott