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Politics live blog – Wednesday 7 July 2010

Andrew Sparrow with all today's politics news – including Liam Fox's announcement on Sangin and PMQs

Operation Achilles in Sangin, Afghanistan
Defence secretary is due to announce pull-out of British troops from Sangin, Afghanistan. Photograph: Corporal Adrian Harlen/PA

9.30am: It's one of those days with lots on, but no big story dominating the news. The BBC is leading with British troops pulling out of Sangin – which is also the splash in the Guardian – but that's unlikely to be still at the top of the bulletins by the end of the day. What will be leading the new by then? Who knows, but here's the schedule for the day:

9am: Francis Maude, the Cabinet Office minister, is delivering a speech to a conference organised by the think tank Reform.
10am: Two former ambassadors to Iran give evidence to the Iraq inquiry.
12pm: Prime minister's questions.
12.30pm: Liam Fox, the defence secretary, makes a statement to MPs about the withdrawal from Sangin.
1.20pm: Iain Duncan Smith, the work and pensions secretary, is delivering a speech on welfare reform.
3.45pm: Chris Huhne, the energy secretary, speaks to the Local Government Assocation conference.

Nick Gibb, the schools minister, is also making a written statement to MPs today about behaviour in schools. My colleague Jeevan Vasagar has already previewed what he's going to say.

As usual, I'll be blogging all the breaking news, flagging up what's important, and bringing you the best politics from the papers and the web.

9.47am: Public sector pensions are in the news today. A body called the Public Sector Pension Commission has published a report saying they are "twice as valuable as previously thought". Here's the report, here's the press release, and here's an extract from the Press Association story about it.

Public sector pensions cost twice as much to provide as previously thought and must be reformed if they are to be sustainable, a report indicated today.
Workers in the public sector would need to save more than 40% of their salary each year, including their employer's contribution, to fund the final salary pension benefits they are building up.
But the actual amount they contribute is half this level at just 6% for workers and 14% for their employer, according to the independent Public Sector Pensions Commission.
A lack of transparency about the schemes is also masking their true cost due to the accounting methods used by the government, it claimed.
The commission estimates that the schemes will cost the government around £18 billion during the coming financial year, using the government's own accounting methods, but it warned that this figure nearly doubled to £35 billion if the liabilities were "properly measured".

The title "Public Sector Pension Commission" makes this body sound official, and neutral. But actually it's been set up by the Institute for Economic Affairs and the Institute for Directors and Nigel Stanley has written a post at the TUC's Touchstone blog saying that the idea that it is independent is "laughable". He says that most of the commission's members have an "extensive track record of opposing public sector pensions".

10.02am: Tony Blair came in for a bit of stick in a debate in the House of Lords last night from a couple of his former colleagues. Peers were debating a report from the Lords constitutional committee on the Cabinet Office and the centre of government and Lord Butler of Brockwell, cabinet secretary until 1998, said Blair had created a bit of a mess.

It is clear from the report of the committee and from the evidence taken that the centre of our government had become something of a mess. The committee puts it more diplomatically, referring to "a complicated and at times confusing web of offices, structures, jobs and personalities".

In particular, Butler queried the way the role of the Cabinet Office had changed while Blair was prime minister.


Professor Peter Hennessy told the constitution committee that the Cabinet Office had become a prime minister's department in all but name. The present cabinet secretary, Sir Gus O'Donnell, in his evidence to the committee, said that: "There is one Cabinet Office of which Number 10 is a subset". I found myself asking what Winston Churchill would have said about his office being a subset of the Cabinet Office. The logic would suggest that, in this respect, the prime minister is junior to the minister for the Cabinet Office.

Butler also criticised the way Blair tried to abolish the office of Lord Chancellor in 2003.

It is clear from the evidence that one government hand did not know what the other hand was doing and that the prime minister acted in ignorance of factual advice that was available to him.

Lord Goldsmith also commented on this affair. He was appointed by Blair, and generally has been very loyal to him, but he could not defend him over this.

I am, as it happens, a great admirer of the former prime minister, Tony Blair, but this was a bad business ... It is plain from the report that inadequate consultation and advice were taken on the effect of a proposed change in the machinery of government, as it may have seemed to some, although it was in fact a major constitutional change.

10.30am: After keeping us in suspense for a while, Lord Ashcroft has confirmed today that he is giving up his non-dom status so that he can stay in the House of Lords. Sky's Niall Paterson got there first (I think) on Twitter.

10.33am: Not much in the papers today. But here are three stories worth noting.

• The Times says in its splash that the security agencies are monitoring around the clock two active terrorist cells known to be planning attacks on Britain.

The cells stand out from dozens of police and security services operations because they have discussed methods of attack, including "soft targets" that could result in large-scale civilian casualties, according to security sources.

• Sue Cameron in the Financial Times says that, although the Department for International Development's budget is ring-fenced, it may have to spend its money helping the Foreign Office or defence.


"Nothing will be taken out of the Difid budget," one diplomat assured me. "It'll just be spent on things over which Difid has no control." And it is hard to see what Difid can do about it.

• The FT reports on an Institute for Fiscal Studies report saying that marriage does not make relationships more stable.


"Marriage per se does not contribute much to making relationships more stable when children are young," the IFS said. "This casts doubt on the government's aim of promoting marriage in order to decrease the rate of parental separation."

10.42am: Prime minister's questions might be slightly more interesting than usual today - because John Bercow delivered a speech last night saying how appalling it usually is. I can't find the full text on the web, but there's a news report on it here and here's an extract.

We reached the point [by the end of the last parliament] where almost nothing was deemed beyond the personal responsibility of the prime minister of the day, where the party leaders were responsible for a third of all the questions asked (and often more like 50 to 60% of the total time consumed) all set against a background of noise which makes the vuvuzela trumpets of the South African World Cup appear but distant whispers by comparison. If it is scrutiny at all, then it is scrutiny by screech which is a very strange concept to my mind.

Bercow said that in the 1960s opposition leaders asked just 10% of questions at PMQs and 25% in the 1980s. The proportion has grown because Margaret Thatcher and Neil Kinnock did not always use up their full quota of questions when they were leading the opposition. According to Bercow's research, it was John Smith who established the precedent that the opposition leader would always ask three questions. (Now it's six, but in those days there were two PMQs per week.)

Bercow also said that the televised leaders' debate in the election helped to persuade him that PMQs needed to change.

The rules for those encounters included, you may recall, a prohibition on cheering or chanting from the audience. Does anyone plausibly contend that the cut and thrust of debate between messrs Brown, Cameron and Clegg suffered as a consequence?

11.09am: The Public Sector Pension Commission report which I mentioned earlier (see 9.47am) is not an easy read, but Stephanie Flanders has got a clear summary and analysis on her BBC blog. At the risk of annoying realityethical (who has a go at her reporting in the comments), here's an extract from what she has to say.

The basic argument of the report is hard to quibble with: public sector pensions may be "affordable" in their current form, but it is difficult to believe they are sustainable, at a time when private-sector pension provision has fallen so far.

Only 11% of private sector workers are in final salary schemes today, but 94% of public sectors workers are. Well over 50% of private sector workers don't have any employer-sponsored pension scheme at all.

This report's greatest contribution to the debate lies less in the scary numbers but in the range of options it offers for reform, and in the words of good sense it offers to those who must come up with proposals on this for the government - for example, they make the point that the prime minister's promise to cap public sector pensions at £50,000 a year will do very little to cut costs because it would affect relatively few retirees. The real savings come from capping the salary on which pension benefits can be accrued. The report reckons that a £50,000 cap on pensionable salaries in the civil service would cut costs by 2.3% - not a huge amount, perhaps, but far more than a similar cap on the pension that can be paid out.

11.20am: Ministers have been regularly promising to "cut red tape" ever since I started covering Westminster in the 1990s - and probably since long before. Today Eric Pickles, the communities secretary, is the latest person to have a go. He has issued a press release promising a "radical plan to banish nonsense red tape". The government has got an interesting proposal in this area. It wants to operate a "one-in, one-out" rule, forcing minister to scrap a regulation for every new one they introduce. But today's "radical plan" seems to consist of just inviting council staff to think of regulations that should be abolished and send them in to cutredtape@communities.gsi.gov.uk.

Pickles has also published his own list of "unnecessary regulations, ridiculous micromanagement or outdated laws that he intends to revoke or simplify". But there are only 11 items on it. The highlight seems to be a 1919 law forcing councils to get government permission if they want to buy allotment land.

11.39am: Trevor Phillips, the chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, has been cleared of contempt of parliament. Earlier this year an investigation was launched following complaints that he tried to exert improper influence over the conclusions of a parliamentary inquiry into the EHRC. This morning the Lords privileges committee has issued a report saying that he was "not guilty" of contempt but that his behaviour - he called three members of the committee investigating the EHRC shortly before its report was finalised - may have been "inappropriate and ill-advised".

12.01pm: PMQs is starting. David Cameron begins with a reminder that today is the fifth anniversary of the 7/7 terror attacks in London.

12.04pm: Harriet Harman starts by supporting what Cameron said about 7/7.

She says hundreds of thousands of women are the victims of domestic violence. The justice department is reviewing short prison sentences. Will Cameron confirm that the review will not stop magistrates giving short sentences for domestic violence.

Cameron says that for "too many years" this was an issue that the police did not deal with properly. He pays tribute to Labour for taking the issue seriously. Ken Clarke, the justice secretary, made it clear in his speech last week that he did not want to abolish short sentences outright, Cameron says.

Harman says it is "reassuring" to hear that the Lib Dem promise to get rid of short sentences will not be implemented. Harman urges Cameron to "listen to his mother". Cameron's mother (a former magistrate) supports the need for short sentences, as Cameron said in the election.

Harman says that in the election Cameron said any minister who produced plans for cuts that would affect frontline services would be told to "think again". Does this apply to the home secretary?

Cameron says his mother had to hand out short sentences "to badly behaved CND protesters outside Greenham Common". This seems to be aimed at Harman, although Cameron himself admits that he doesn't know whether she was a Greenham Common protester. (Was she? I don't think she was.)

On public spending, Cameron says Labour would have cut spending too by 20%. So the cuts are Labour cuts.

12.09pm: Harman says Cameron was asked last week if he could confirm that police numbers won't fall over the course of the parliament. Can Cameron answer that question today?

Cameron quotes from what Alan Johnson said when he was asked if he could give an assurance during the election that police numbers would not fall. Johnson said: "No."

Harman tries again. Cameron says Labour is to blame for the state of the economy. Britain is now being lectured by Argentina about debt, he says.

12.12pm: Harman asks if the government cuts are more likely to make crime go down or go up.

Cameron says gun crime and violent crime almost doubled under the last government. Cameron tries to make a point about Labour spin doctors, and he is about to quote from the new book by Deborah Mattinson. But John Bercow cuts him off: "We won't bother with that."

Harman asks Cameron if he can promise that crime will go down.

Cameron says he was "only trying to boost sales" of the Mattinson book. On crime, he says he won't be wandering around his constituency in a stab-proof vest.

12.17pm: PMQs verdict: Cameron won quite easily. He had effective, substantial responses when he was challenged by Harman over short sentences and police numbers. She might have done much better if she had focused on the frontline spending promise that Cameron made before the election. "What I can tell you is any cabinet minister, if I win the election, who comes to me and says 'here are my plans' and they involved frontline reductions, they will be sent straight back to their department to go away and think again," Cameron told the Andrew Marr show. I can't see how he can defend that remark now. But Harman only pressed him on it once.

12.32pm: There was not anything remarkable in the rest of PMQs. But here are some of the other topics Cameron covered.

• Asked about the killing of Zac Olumegbon, Cameron said sentences needed to send out the message that carrying a knife was unacceptable.

• He ruled out presenting the UK budget to an EU body before presenting it to parliament.

• Asked if there would be fewer children in poverty at the end of the parliament, he said: "We are absolutely committed to meeting the child poverty target."

• He said academies would have to admit children with special needs on the same basis that other schools do.

• Asked about the search for the fugitive gunman Raoul Moat, Cameron said it would be wrong to comment on the ongoing operation.

The whole house and the whole country will be wishing the police well in their search for this individual so that we can put a stop to this horrendous spree that has been taking place.

12.39pm: Liam Fox is making his statement about the withdrawal of British troops from Sangin. He stresses that the decision has been agreed by members of the International Security Assistance Force (Isaf).

12.48pm: Here is what Fox has said about Sangin.

ISAF intends to restructure its forces in Farah and Nimroz provinces so that it can consolidate a US marine brigade in northern Helmand, which will assume responsibility for security in Sangin later this year. This will simplify current command arrangements and enable UK troops to be redeployed to reinforce progress in the key districts of central Helmand ...

The result will be a coherent and equitable division of the main populated areas of a Helmand between three brigade-sized forces, with the US in the north and south, and the UK-led Task Force Helmand, alongside our outstanding Danish and Estonian allies, in the central population belt.

12.52pm: And here are some of the other points Fox made.

• Some solidiers from the theatre reserve battalion, the 2nd battalion the Duke of Lancaster's regiment, will be deployed to Afghanistan from Cyprus. This will be a temporary deployment until the Americans take over Sangin.

• Fox insisted that he and David Cameron had been arguing for some time that "British troops in Helmand were too thinly spread" and that there were "insufficient force densities for effective counter-insurgency".

• And he claimed that British forces in Sangin had made "huge progress in the face of great adversity".

12.59pm: Fox has just urged MPs to understand the "complexities" of Aghanistan. There is no single, unified Taliban, he said.

We should perhaps reflect on the terms that we use, not just on "the Taliban" but also "the insurgency", and ask whether there are a number of similar, but discrete, insurgencies going on, just as there are number of similar, but discrete, groups that we tend to call the Taliban. If we accept in this House that we are dealing with greater complexity than is sometimes described, I think we might find it easier to understand the complexity of some of the solutions that ourselves and the Afghan government will have to come to.

1.05pm: Liam Fox said that he has invited newspaper editors to the Ministry of Defence for a "very detailed briefing" about Afghanistan. He was responding to a question from a Tory MP complaining about the way the conflict has been reported.

1.13pm: Fox has insisted that the British are not "retreating" from Sangin.

Any attempt by anyone to describe this as a retreat would be completely contemptible.

1.16pm: Some MPs have been critical of the notion that the military operation in Afghanistan is all about protecting Britain from terrorist attack. This is from Patrick Mercer, the Tory MP and a former soldier.

Five years to the day we were attacked not by Afghans, but by Yorkshiremen, not trained in Afghanistan, but in Pakistan and the Lake District. Yet the last government insisted on telling us that conventional military operations would somehow impede this sort of attack in the future. Clearly that is nonsense. Would the secretary of state come to the despatch box and explain that we are involved in a regional war that stretches right the way from Iran to Russia, and this is as much about fighting for Pakistan's stability as Afghanistan's stability, and that the lives and blood of our servicemen are being shed in a crucial cause.

Fox accepted that the war was "not just about Afghanistan".

1.26pm: The Fox statement is now over. What was interesting was how little enthusiasm for the Afghan mission there is in the Commons, particularly on the Conservative benches. John Baron suggested that the British were in danger of achieving a "pyrrhic victory". His fellow Tory backbencher Edward Leigh was even more blunt. He said Britain went to war on the "wrong premise".

We were told that we were going there to protect Londoners going to work. We now know that that al-Qaida has moved most of its operations to Pakistan, we know that most of the Taliban we kill die within 20 miles of where they are born. So why are we there? Is it to hold territory, which nobody has ever succeeded in doing in Afghanistan, not even the Soviets, with 240,000 people. If it is to fight a dirty war and keep their heads down, why don't we place more reliance on special forces, rather than let the British army go on bleeding to death.

2.03pm: Here's a lunchtime summary.

An extra 300 extra troops will be sent to Afghanistan, Liam Fox announced. Fox said the soldiers would be deployed until October as he confirmed that British forces will withdraw from Sangin. But any attempt to describe that as a retreat would be "completely contemptible", he said. The defence secretary also announced that the government was spending £189m on equipment for the forces in Afghanistan. He insisted that he and David Cameron had been arguing for some time that British forces in Helmand were "too thinly spread" and he said that the redeployment would lead to better distribution of Isaf forces in Helmand. Several MPs questioned whether Britain should be fighting in Afghanistan at all.

Chris Huhne, the energy secretary, announced that he will scrap the ban on councils selling green electricity into the national grid. In a speech to the Local Government Association conference this afternoon, he will say: "It's ridiculous that the 1976 Local Government Act prevents councils from selling electricity from local wind turbines, or from anaerobic digestion. I want to see this repealed and by the end of the year I hope local authorities will be able to sell electricity from renewables – generating revenue to help local services and keep council tax down. Local communities can truly benefit from the low-carbon transition." Huhne also said that he was publishing information about the carbon footprint of every council in Britain.

Michael Gove, the education secretary, has let it be known that he is going to apologise "unreservedly" for mistakes his department made when releasing information about the cancellation of the Building Schools for the Future programme. The Press Association says: "There were 25 mistakes in a department for education (DfE) list that set out which building projects would be scrapped, reviewed and protected following the axing of the Building Schools for the Future (BSF) programme. It means several schools that thought their building projects were safe have now been told they will not go ahead."

The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development has raised concerns about the government's decision to cut two employment programmes. "While the large fiscal deficit makes it essential to focus on cost-effective programmes and target the most disadvantaged groups, labour market programmes should remain adequately funded. In this context, it may also be of concern that the new budget ends funding for two crisis measures – the Future Jobs Fund and the Six Month Offer," the OECD said. Larry Elliott has got the full story at Guardian Business.

Trevor Phillips, the chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, has been cleared of allegations that he committed a contempt of parliament. But a Lords committee has accused him of behaviour that may have been "inappropriate and ill-advised". (See 11.39am.)

Lord Ashcroft has revealed that he has given up his non-dom status. (See 10.30am.)

2.47pm: I wasn't following the Iraq inquiry hearing this morning. But the Press Association has filed a story and it says that Sir Richard Dalton, Britain's ambassador to Iran at the time of the war, said that Tony Blair had "very much exaggerated" Iran's role in supporting the insurgency. Here's an extract from the PA copy.

Tony Blair "very much exaggerated" Iran's role in supporting al-Qaida insurgents in their attacks on British and American forces in Iraq, a former ambassador to Tehran said today.
And Sir Richard Dalton said that the UK and US misread the intentions of the Iranian regime, believing it would inevitably be hostile to their mission in Iraq when in fact Tehran wanted them to succeed in installing a stable government in Baghdad.
Giving evidence to the Iraq Inquiry today, Sir Richard - Britain's ambassador in Tehran from 2003/06 - said Blair made "a series of very bad decisions" about the legality of the 2003 invasion.
And he condemned US President George Bush's 2002 characterisation of Iran as part of an "axis of evil" as a "monstrous error".
As international pressure continues to ratchet up over Tehran's alleged efforts to acquire nuclear weapons, Sir Richard warned that military action against Iran would be illegal unless there was evidence it posed an "imminent and real" threat to another country.
In his appearance before the inquiry in January, Blair stressed the role of both Iran and al-Qaida in destabilising Iraq and making the task of rebuilding the country following the overthrow of Saddam Hussein more difficult.
But Sir Richard today told the inquiry: "From what I saw of his evidence, I thought he very much exaggerated this factor."
Iranian help to al-Qaida was in fact limited to permitting fighters to pass across its territory from Pakistan and Afghanistan, said Sir Richard. His assessment was that Tehran had no interest in promoting "anarchy" in Iraq, but wanted an inclusive Iraqi-run government capable of acting as a source of stability in the region.
He added: "I felt at the time that the legitimate and justified criticism of Iran was sometimes used with too broad a brush. Much more of the coalition difficulties were attributed to Iran than was the case."
Iran wanted to foment enough disorder in Iraq to "make sure the coalition felt some pain and therefore didn't dig in for a long stay", but its interference was not as damaging to the US-led mission as the insurgency led by former Ba'athists.

3.16pm: It's thought that around 200 MPs have given up claiming parliamentary expenses because the new system is so complicated, my colleague Nick Watt writes on his blog. He also says that last night's debate on the finance bill, which did not finish until after 2am, illustrated why MPs dislike the new system.

MPs with outer London constituencies, who are not allowed to claim accommodation or travel expenses until Parliament sits past 11.00pm, were frantically working out in the early evening yesterday what to do. They knew parliament would be sitting late but they did not exactly when the commons would rise. If they booked a hotel and parliament rose early they would not be able to make a claim and would be out of pocket.

3.31pm: Professor Michael Clarke, director of the Royal United Services Institute, has put out this statement about the withdrawal from Sangin. It's quite long, but I think it's worth quoting in full because it explains what this is all about, politically and militarily. Clarke's conclusion: the British should probably have never been in Sangin in the first place.

It never made much military sense to put troops into the northern areas of Sangin, Musa Qala and Kajacki in the first place; but in 2006 they were sent there at the insistence of President Karzai, and once established, any pullback would have represented a victory for the Taliban. If the 99 British troops killed in Sangin have died for a minor military objective, they nevertheless died to uphold the military credibility of the whole British operation in Helmand. And now that the Americans are arriving in force, the British find themselves occupying almost 70% of Coalition territory in Helmand with less than 30% of the troops that will be in place by the end of August. It would be crazy not to reorganise the force and take the opportunity to reinforce the British units in the central belt of Helmand, making them more effective – and safer - with larger numbers.

Musa Qala was handed over to US forces in March, and was by then in pretty good order after some tough times; Kajacki was handed over in June, not as stable as commanders would have hoped, but certainly better than it had been. Sangin will probably be handed over in October sometime; and it will still be the badlands. The British will have achieved two out of three (or perhaps one and a half out of three) in coping with these barely tenable outposts. For the lads on the ground that rates as a score draw away from home. They'll settle for that and get on with the next bit of the campaign.

But the political fall-out is unpredictable. The end of British operations in Basra last year represented a similar gritty score draw away from home, but the mechanics of it came to look like a furtive retreat, with precious little gratitude from the Iraqi government. The image at home that Britain was giving up a job it could no longer handle, was impossible to shake off. And the same may attach to Sangin. This war is as much about image and perception as it is about who controls the ground in Afghanistan. Getting out of a forward base the troops should probably never have been in at all, and for which they have sacrificed so much of their blood and sanity, is never going to be easy. But it is militarily right that it should be done.

On that note, I'm finishing for the day. I posted a summary at 2.03pm. There hasn't been much new since then, except Tony Blair being criticised by Britain's former ambassador to Iran (see 2.47pm). It's been an uninspiring day. But it might improve tomorrow. Cameron is due to make a major speech about public sector reform.

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  • realityethical realityethical

    7 Jul 2010, 10:18AM

    Public Sector Pension Commission has published a report saying they are "twice as valuable as previously thought"

    the good ole beeb ran with this story last night - and from what they were saying, it sounded like a govt panel or independent review - yet it turns out to be a hatchet job organised by the iod. how shameful and what shoddy reporting by flanders.

    yet this is how the condems spin machine present stories - they pick out the worst example, as if it is mainstream, to justify their extreme cuts of the whole. and/or they smear people like balls ahead of their annoucements. all greedily swallowed by a love in media.

  • 46and2 46and2

    7 Jul 2010, 10:22AM

    More anti public sector garbage again this morning, i dont work in the public sector but i work alongside lots of people who do, they are committed and often selfless in their approach to the job that they do, obviously this isnt the case for all but alot of the frontline public sector workers such as nurses etc need commending for the job that they do, not a public thrashing by the the privatesectorphiles that call themselves goverment or the fascist gutter press and gullible head up the arse voiceboxes.

  • fibmac70 fibmac70

    7 Jul 2010, 11:17AM

    Politics live blog – Wednesday 7 July 2010
    Andrew Sparrow with all today's politics news – including Liam Fox's announcement on Sangin and PMQs

    Liam to Dave : We're leaving Sangin
    Dave to Liam : The news leaves me sanguin...
    William to Dave : If I ruled the planet....(Harry Secombe-voice)
    Dave to William : But you don't, so just can it !

  • right2education right2education

    7 Jul 2010, 11:18AM

    A body called the Public Sector Pension Commission has published a report saying they are "twice as valuable as previously thought"

    Hardly a balanced report. Unable to find any mention of Government perks when these were first created; thousands of employees paid into these schemes with no pensions to pay out for years making it a once totally profitable way for Government to make money which has come back to bite them on the ar$e.

  • WinningestWinner WinningestWinner

    7 Jul 2010, 12:22PM

    "On crime, he says he won't be wandering around his constituency in a stab-proof vest. "

    Think Cameron may have some problems with this one.

    To be honest Dave, I don't think Witney, Oxfordshire, has much of a crime problem!

    Isn't a prime bit of ammo against the tories, that they neglect the poor areas of the country, to keep the living standards of the nice areas up?

    Well done Dave.............

    He always does stuff like this. Comes up with a smart alec comment, that he thinks the Bullingdon Club will find amusing". Not realisng that it makes him come across like an arrogant toff.

  • RedRush RedRush

    7 Jul 2010, 12:22PM

    The pensions report is flawed as its projections are based on current interest rates which are at a 300 year low. Sounds like the politics of envy to me

  • BtheI BtheI

    7 Jul 2010, 12:28PM

    What statistics is Cameron using for claiming that violent and gun crime doubled?

    Is this the same misrepresentation of the changes in crime measurement statistics that Grayling got in trouble for during the election campaign?

    It'd hard to beat Cameron in PMQs, as he doesn't engage with the questions and instead just attacks back. But an awful lot of what he says is complete bollocks. Labour ought to respond to it by putting out dossiers of all the half-truths, misrepresentations and changes of tack he engages in at each PMQ. When he makes a howler, it'd help to hijack the spin.

  • WinningestWinner WinningestWinner

    7 Jul 2010, 12:29PM

    "Cameron won quite easily. He had effective, substantial responses when he was challenged by Harman over short sentences and police numbers."

    What kind of political reporting is this by the way.

    First question, he agreed with Harman

    Second question, he didn't answer. He just made a joke about protestors

    Third question, for the second week in a row, he refused to answer whether police numbers would fall. Just blanked it

    Fourth Question, he was asked whether crime would go up, and he tried to answer it with ANOTHER joke about some book, but was stopped by Bercow

    Fifth Question, he was asked the same question again, and he produced a totally disengenious claim that violent crime has gone up under Labour.

    This is based on completely false reading of statistics, that only 6 months ago Chris Grayling was rebuked, for using.

    Seriously. Cameron's a real favourite with the Guardian since he gave their party a few ministerial seats.

    They just suck up to the guy, none stop.

    The last 2 PMQs have been bordering on farcical. He responds to questions by making random jokes, about the person asking it!

  • WinningestWinner WinningestWinner

    7 Jul 2010, 12:30PM

    What statistics is Cameron using for claiming that violent and gun crime doubled?

    Is this the same misrepresentation of the changes in crime measurement statistics that Grayling got in trouble for during the election campaign?

    It'd hard to beat Cameron in PMQs, as he doesn't engage with the questions and instead just attacks back. But an awful lot of what he says is complete bollocks. Labour ought to respond to it by putting out dossiers of all the half-truths, misrepresentations and changes of tack he engages in at each PMQ. When he makes a howler, it'd help to hijack the spin.

    =========================================================

    Yes, for the last 2 weeks Cameron has been using the discredited statistics that Chris Grayling got rebuked for using in PMQS.

    Sadly, once in power, the government press offices tend to have a tighter grip on the newspapers, so they are all too afraid to take the guy to task.

    You can attack a opposition MP for lying. Not the PM

  • WinningestWinner WinningestWinner

    7 Jul 2010, 12:32PM

    the good ole beeb ran with this story last night - and from what they were saying, it sounded like a govt panel or independent review - yet it turns out to be a hatchet job organised by the iod. how shameful and what shoddy reporting by flanders.

    ===========================================================

    Sky still haven't even acknowledged that it's a private investigation, funded by corporate Britain.

    They are just stating that it's the "commission for pensions", hoping that people assume that it's something to do with the government

  • covsky covsky

    7 Jul 2010, 12:34PM

    PMQs seems to be just as farcical as it was under Broon, who seems to have left his constituents without an MP, until the Speaker takes someone to task it will not improve. However, there is no part of the title which means the Questions will ever get answers.

  • WinningestWinner WinningestWinner

    7 Jul 2010, 12:35PM

    I think the Guardian are actually a bit of a fan of Cameron.

    They are never anything but glowing, since he gave Clegg and his cronies a bit of power.

    They attack Hague, and Osborne, but never Cameron.

    In Guardian world it's now:

    1: Lib Dems
    2: Cameron
    3: Labour
    4: The rest of the tory party!

  • shinsei shinsei

    7 Jul 2010, 12:38PM

    What statistics is Cameron using for claiming that violent and gun crime doubled?

    If violent crime isn't a very real issue then it is strange that TWO Labour backbenchers brought up issues of knife and gun crime in their constituencies recently.

  • Kookboy Kookboy

    7 Jul 2010, 12:43PM

    • Asked if there would be fewer children in poverty at the end of the parliamnet, he said: "We are absolutely committed to meeting the child poverty target."

    Is that a yes or a no then Dave?

    Or I hope?

  • RedRush RedRush

    7 Jul 2010, 12:47PM

    Come on Sparrow you can do better than that!
    What did they teach you at journo school?

    To date Cameron's performance in PMQ's have been OK, hardly commanding tho. One critical observation Sparrow has missed is Cameron still appears to be in oppostion mode and responds to questions with questions of his own.

  • afcone afcone

    7 Jul 2010, 12:50PM

    The solutions offered by the Public Sector Pensions Commission were actually fairly well thought out, and nowhere near as bad as I thought they would be when I saw the involvement of the IEA (whose spokesman's recent appearance on Newsnight made John Redwood appear as a pinko Commie).

    The use of a 0.8% discount rate is a fix however, and makes the pension cost seem much worse than it actually is (similarly the use of such a rate under International Financial Reporting Standards is a contributing factor to the death of private sector schemes). Given that interest rates are ridiculously low, any return to normality will shrink the debt signficantly. A better way to look at pension costs is cash flows as a proportion of GDP, which is significantly less alarmist.

  • emilia emilia

    7 Jul 2010, 12:50PM

    That report you've quoted from Stephanie Flanders, which is meant to be an impartial assessment of a heavily biased document seems to directly contradict the National Audit Office's assessment of public sector pensions.

    Furthermore, does she really think it is acceptable for a supposedly impartial reporter to say:

    public sector pensions may be "affordable" in their current form, but it is difficult to believe they are sustainable, at a time when private-sector pension provision has fallen so far.

    Only 11% of private sector workers are in final salary schemes today, but 94% of public sectors workers are. Well over 50% of private sector workers don't have any employer-sponsored pension scheme at all.

    .
    She's basically endorsing the employers' old argument that because they treat their staff badly so should the public sector. That's a reporting to the BBC Trust worthy failure of impartiality, in my view.

    & before anyone pops up & blames Gordon Brown for the state of private sector pensions, I worked for a private sector pension scheme. In the mid to late eighties when the scheme was in credit the company had taken a lengthy contributions holiday, while their employees continued to pay contributions as usual. The company made ludicrously big profits & could have easily continued to contribute at the same rate but refused to do so. When the stock markets finallty crashed, the final salary scheme was in deficit, which the employer used as an excuse to shut it down, even though had they made the contributions they should have made, it would have been viable. They then moved to a much worse defined benefits scheme, which lots of employees didn't even bother joining. Lots of private sector companies did this. When you hear the words "historic deficit" in reference to a private sector pension scheme, what they mean is an historic failure on the part of the company to pay what they said they would.

  • urbanm urbanm

    7 Jul 2010, 12:53PM

    Cameron tries to make a point about Labour spin doctors

    I seem to recall the Tories complaining about New Labour announcing stories/policies via the press before telling Parliament.

    Isn't that exactly what Dr Fox has just done - the story was all over the press yesterday telling us exactly what he was going to say to MPs in the Commons today.

  • RedRush RedRush

    7 Jul 2010, 12:53PM

    The pension report may well have been produced by a right wing think. The forecasts are based on current interest rates which are at a 300 year low. Flanders and others have decided to just tow the line

  • Kookboy Kookboy

    7 Jul 2010, 12:55PM

    @WhinningestWinner:

    I understand your thoughts on that,

    I do feel Cameron will defect to the Lib/dems once he gets kicked out by the more hard-line tories.

    Not that I agree with your top 4!!

  • dellamirandola dellamirandola

    7 Jul 2010, 1:34PM

    Just seen the twitter about Michael Gove apologising - what happened about that? He does seem to have made a spectacular hash of his school building announcement, and is the latest in a series of new ministers who have had to apologise. Did he do it on purpose? Are they all just adjusting to life as ministers instead of in opposition, or do they just prefer to brief the media first and apologise afterwards? Cameron seems to be quite good at the art of making big statements to the House - maybe he should start giving masterclasses to his cabinet?

  • Cuse Cuse

    7 Jul 2010, 1:40PM

    Andrew Sparrow - Your report on PMQ's today is shocking.

    If Dave stood up, dropped his strides and emptied himself on the despatch box you'd claim he was dominant. I'm lost as to how you rate these performances.

    @WinnengestWinner summarises PMQs today perfectly.

    Supporting the Tories won't halt your shocking circulation decline. When will your Ed stop whipping you to support this tedious and hopeless bore?

  • Hireton Hireton

    7 Jul 2010, 3:26PM

    "PMQs verdict: Cameron won quite easily. He had effective, substantial responses when he was challenged by Harman over short sentences and police numbers. "

    Well I watched and he didn't. Andrew, your not Julian Glover in disguise are you?

  • Hireton Hireton

    7 Jul 2010, 3:29PM

    @shinsei

    "If violent crime isn't a very real issue then it is strange that TWO Labour backbenchers brought up issues of knife and gun crime in their constituencies recently."

    Is anybody saying it isn't a very real issue? But thats not the same as challenging an assertion from Cameron about crime rates.

  • jforbes jforbes

    7 Jul 2010, 3:38PM

    Analysis of the pensions report which points out that

    The current cost of paying pay-as-you-go public sector pensions is 1.8 per cent of GDP. It rises to 1.9 per cent, but then falls back to 1.7 per cent by 2050.

    Rather less scary number than those produced by the IoD and regurgitated by the BBC and the Guardian.

  • calminthestorm calminthestorm

    7 Jul 2010, 3:39PM

    @ Andrew Sparrow re: 3.16pm on expenses.

    You also have MPs who are said to be "outer" London but clearly aren't. These days Milton Keynes, Reading, Luton and Slough are all in London.

    On paper it takes 57m to get from Milton Keynes to London (on an expensive Virgin train, not cheap local train either) but that is from Milton Keynes to Euston, not a house to Westminster.

    So even if the House finishes at 10pm the sitting MP is only likely to get home around 1am. Then they could be expected back before 9am for a committee the following day.

    The rules are obvioulsy set by someone sitting looking at a piece of paper rather than going out of London, but what do you expect of civil servants backed up by reporters who never leave the lobby bar?

    I'm sure that many people will say 200 MPs not claiming is great news but, sorry, this sort of system would certainly discourage me from ever wanting to be an MP. Now I commute everyday but my job is 9 - 5, parliament is not like that at the moment but the people keeping it like it is are probably the self same 200 who don't need the money and like the clubby drinks party.

  • timbo2 timbo2

    7 Jul 2010, 3:44PM

    Re 3.16pm

    Don't taxis run all night in London then? Why on earth can't 3 or 4 of them who live in the same sort of direction club together to get home anyway? And what time are they expected to report in on the following day? Good grief!

  • jforbes jforbes

    7 Jul 2010, 4:50PM

    3.16pm:

    Last tubes/train run well past midnight so for Outer London MPs I don't see the problem. Perhaps regular late night it might encourage them to rethink parliamentary hours.

  • SmashtheGates SmashtheGates

    7 Jul 2010, 4:51PM

    emilia
    7 Jul 2010, 12:50PM

    Good post.

    Well done for mentioning pensions payments holidays. It was appallingly rife in both public and private sectors in the stock market boom years. They stupidly assumed they would last forever and now its the prospective pensioners who have been robbed - quite literally.

    IEA types always used to complain that going public was all about levelling down to poor standards. Now they want us all to level down to crap private sector standards in pensions. Stuff 'em.

  • Occasionalspeaker Occasionalspeaker

    7 Jul 2010, 8:23PM

    @winningestwinner

    "On crime, he says he won't be wandering around his constituency in a stab-proof vest. "

    Think Cameron may have some problems with this one.

    To be honest Dave, I don't think Witney, Oxfordshire, has much of a crime problem!

    Witney used to be the place that exported well-heeled lager louts to Oxford on a Saturday evening. Then they could fight with the rugby boys from the University. Dave may remember this.

    If I were him, I wouldn't be getting too complacent about that bullet-proof vest, either.

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