I am realy into politics but this is final straw for me. If people are not hapy with this government what can be done to force them out? Serious answers please.

I wish I knew misanthropy. I'm inclined to think we have become more of a police state and really don't have much say in anything, let alone a democratic process of voting and choosing who we would like as PM.

These BSF cutbacks could possibility put my own job under threat, but I'm inclined to agree that many of these new schools are poor value. But not only that, designs are often substandard and the lifespan of materials relatively short.

Pure unadulterated Thatcherism.

still agree with Nick?

rigging the electoral system
new anti union laws
tax breaks for the rich
attacks on the benefit system
Free (ha ha ha ha ha) schools run by any chancer who fancies a go

And the Guardian and Observer support them
how long until the only readers you have are the bizarre tories who infest cif?

firstly we don't live in a democracy, and never have. We get to elect our dictator every 4-5 years and that is about it. The parties we choose from are not actually interested in the interests of the population just their own.

But if you look at how pfi ppp have worked they are hugely over priced and are indebting the country for years to come. We would have been far better off if it had been done on the balance sheet rather than using accountancy tricks to reduce the deficit.

Going forward, how can we spend money we don't have? and don't say tax the bankers, we all no no party was going to do that. Is cut spending a good idea or a bad one, not sure as i know alot of construction companies are relying on this work to keep above water, but i also know some at least knew this was going to happen 12-18 months ago. But knowing about it and being able to do anything about it in this market are very different things.

So in a world where we don't make cheap t shirts and so rely on a knowledge based economy, we're cutting education, brilliant. But according to Grauniad columnist Julian Grove we've all got to shut up and put up with it. Fuck that, the country's future is being wrecked by these maniacs. There is no need fior cuts this year, repeat no need. The debt is long term and manageable. It's jobs is the only way to get out of a recession and repay debt when times are better. It is simply pointless during a recession as it'll drive down tax receipts, increase social security spending and lose jobs in the pvte sector and unemployed people don't shop much. Some body please wake us up from this nightmare and tell us it's not for real

I'm against cutting spending on education but this programme seems to have been a very centralised and bureaucratic approach, much to politicised which Labour no doubt used to pour money into its favourite areas whilst the rest of the country, the non-marginal seats, were ignored. Best to get rid of it but it needs to be replaced with something better.

My Mum taught me to read and write when I was three years old. A year before I started School........
Education isn't just about shools it's about parents.
Having said that, I do hope that no decent inspiring teachers gets sacked.
An influencial Teacher helps to change your life....

Ed Balls has some neck;he's responsible in a big way for the state of the nations finances.A real second rater.

@ Turnbull2000

So you'll maybe have to go and get a real job then?

The only jobs of worth in the Public Sector, are the Armed Forces, Police, NHS, Education etc...

And even front line services there's LOADS OF WASTE, there isn't any money to pay for all of this extra crap we don't need.

Can't wait to see all those rabid Cif-ers cheering the loss of all those gold plated non-job......um, brickies, carpenters, electricians, plumbers, contractors and suppliers.

I'd love to think it might start to sink in that we're all in this together, and not in a good way, but somehow, sadly, I doubt it.

It's like living under military rule - how long before bloodshed? Just tell me when and where.

My Mum taught me to read! nattybumpto, you are kidding, right? Any country that cuts investment in education better strike oil or start sewing shirts.

c'mon Blair shout Education Education Education now...! But remember to put your pants on inside the superman outfit first though

Hong Kong uses slave labour, from Indonesia, for it's building projects.

They ship in thousand of immigrants, pay them £1 a day, make them work 100 hours a week, and give them no benefits, holidays or insurance.

If you fall off some scaffolding, we'll ship you back and bring in another.

The tories are masters at just shocking mis-use of fact, when making their examples.

Building takes longer in Europe than Asia as they have basically, slave labour, and can treat people however they want

I watched Michael Gove's speech in the House today.

I couldn't quite get my head around the multiplicity of quangos and levels of bureaucracy in the BSF programme.

Simply unbelievable.

we can't afford a billion for new schools (of course the majority of mps wouldn't be sending their kids to these schools anyway) but we can still afford pointless wars that cost a billion every few months, or nuclear subs that cost a few billion to upgrade and keep running etc etc............

Oh dear. Don't think I'll be designing any schools any time soon then. The engineering sector really does get it in the neck. I've already been made redundant once in the last 12 months, hopefully not again.

Do we really need new school buildings to improve the standard of education in this country?
Of course its got to be a good thing to have new school buildings but at the same time there are many incredibly poor countries around the world with very basic facilities and yet provided a very high standard of Education.
I would say that we should focus on the standard of the curriculum and teaching methods rather than crying about how the suspension of Labour's school building programme will affect education in this country.
A programme which has highly many issues including bureaucracy, corruption, and poor designs.

nattybumpo
5 Jul 2010, 6:43PM

My Mum taught me to read and write when I was three years old. A year before I started School........
Education isn't just about shools it's about parents.
Having said that, I do hope that no decent inspiring teachers gets sacked.
An influencial Teacher helps to change your life....

An influencial teacher certainly can change your life. Shools are so important.

My children have really benefited from the schools building programme. A very tatty old building (once an aircraft spares factory, a prefab) which was falling apart has been replaced by a brick-built, light, airy and really uplifting school

The effect on the pupils has been remarkable. They are so proud of their school. The school has a really good head but is in a relatively deprived area; now he and the other (remarkable) teachers have a school to suit them. People are clamouring to bring their kids in.

Not finishing the rebuilding programme is going to result in worse schools. The desperation many parents feel to get their kids into good will intensify. At least during the (awful) 80s we were all in the same boat, all suffering from underfunded schools and miserable old buildings. Now some will get the very best; others will suffer.

Good buildings don't make for good teaching, but well-equipped schools retain the best teachers. By leaving this project half-finished, the government is creating a lower tier of education. There's going to be a big gap indeed, I fully expect, between the lucky and unlucky, in real terms, in the years ahead.

Incidentally, our local secondary has missed out. It was already in special measures (as is the alternative school) and 23 teachers have already left. I can't quite face how bad it's going to be for my kids in the years to come.

£13million was to be spent on a new build in thurrock for a 'creative' academy. i support creative studies and education 100% but this idiot notion is not for musicians, visual or performing artists etc. it is basically a glorified NVQ assessment centre for back of house workers in tv and film ...

£13million on THAT!!!? another brainchild of the wretched sector skills councils ...

Well, at least we'll have the chance to compare current schools with those in derelict shops, offices, back-street garages, and folks houses.

Welcome to the compassionate Tories and the compassionate ... erm ... other Tories.

The previous government committed to spending money it simply did not have, but this coalition government has taken action to address this serious situation. The decisions have not been easy, but the understanding and cooperation of my cabinet colleagues has enabled us to act swiftly to ensure that the nation can live within its means.

"The reality is that these unfunded spending promises should never have been made, because the money was never there to pay for them. We did not make this mess, but we are cleaning it up."

=========================================================

The Lib Dems are getting just as bad as the tories, in regards to trying to mislead people on cuts.

Probably why they are currently polling 14% and will probably end up with 10 MPs at the next election...................hehe

The tories can not afford to do this as they have budgeted to make £40 billion more in cuts than Labour had in their manifesto.

The IMF recommened 80 billion in cuts over 5 years. They have promised £120 billion.

What makes me laugh is that sell out Alexander spent most of last year backing Labour's cuts policy.

For a ministerial car, he's just sold out all of his prinicples.

Can I make this clear Mr Alexander, you sell out.

There are HUGE amounts of things Labour could afford to do, that you can't. Why:

1: They were only going to halve the deficit by 2015
2: They weren't going to give away £10 billion in tax cuts to businesses either. They were going to raise taxes

Schools.

How can they cut schools when they have Trident?

How can they do that?

It beggars belief.

How much did the bankers get in bonuses this year??? When you hear how much £1 billion would do, ie build 706 new school buildings, it puts into some kind of perspective just how much those parasitic leeches amass as personal fortunes. Plus, its partially their fault that these cuts are having to be made in the first place. This country has gone very seriously off the rails.

Gove gave then .............

@Mombasa1969

So you'll maybe have to go and get a real job then?

I work for a private sector architects.

Nattybumpo

Unfortunately not everyone's parents have the skills/brains/time/resources/energy/health/inclination to educate their kids - it's those ones who are most in need of good education and they are the ones who will suffer most by cuts in state education. There is nothing wrong with "pushy parents" (my dad was one and I am extremely grateful to him for it, and if I ever have kids of my own I expect I will be similar) but the system needs to work for everybody else too.

they can do it because they are amoral self centred public school gits

ordinaryboy
5 Jul 2010, 6:49PM
Do we really need new school buildings to improve the standard of education in this country?
Of course its got to be a good thing to have new school buildings but at the same time there are many incredibly poor countries around the world with very basic facilities and yet provided a very high standard of Education.
I would say that we should focus on the standard of the curriculum and teaching methods rather than crying about how the suspension of Labour's school building programme will affect education in this country.
A programme which has highly many issues including bureaucracy, corruption, and poor designs.

Don't know about all the countries of the world, but our area of France has rebuilt all its secondary schools in the past few years, along with new motorways, a superfast broadband system, and have just announced a brand new route for a new TGV.

Looks like you Brits are being left behind in every aspect of infrastructure.....

Also Ron Rafferty I am amazed at this shops and garages schools idea.

How can they teach all the things on this rather meaty curriculum in a garage?

PE?

Science?

It rather demeans the efforts of hardworking teachers and the money spent on education departments to get them into the modern world......

I've heard teachers are highly prized in Canada. Are you joining me?

BSF was PFI and therefore off book. It should not make any difference to the deficit because it does not count.
Watch out for pfi being used to develop the free schools.

Strange how some Labour supporters on CIF come across like rabid Marxists now that they're in opposition. It's as if the present government introduced right-wing economics after 13 years of socialist utopianism. I think everyone knew what was going to happen. Labour warned against it but got less than 30% of the vote. I don't support what's happening but if Labour hadn't based its economic policies of unfettered economic liberalism and put everything on the never never, we wouldn't be facing this trashing of the public sector. If Labour ever gets back into government - and I don't foresee it in the next 10 years - then it should understand that things should be paid for asap or they go back to the seller. Put taxes up if needs be but pay the bills. The Con-Dems are sending in the bailiffs for Labour's debts.

A great many of you are objecting to this but these spending commitments made by Labour were unfunded. The money was never there to pay for these schools.

Better the buildings go than the staff.

WinningestWinner,

May I ask what Alexander's 'principles' were? You know - principles, as in firmly held and thoroughly considered policies that would stand the test of time?

Sorry kids. That state of the art school is scrapped. Don't worry, the 1 piece of chalk and the hole in the blackboard will be fine.

Apparently, Gove complained that money for building schools goes to 'architects and construction companies.' How else are schools built?

So this "big society" is stripping kids of education?

The list of schools is incorrect - my sons school is a new build through PFI its on the list as stopped

tea and chocolate

I spent my first four terms at a grammar school in .... the remains of an ancient school; a fire station; a chapel; an old Labour Club; a public meeting room; a workshop; outside toilets; and a games field almost 2 miles away which we had to walk to for our one hour lesson (so if you didn't run you didn't have time for the games lesson!) After four terms my family moved elsewhere in the country, but that school was at least replaced by a modern purpose built building. The education possible in the various sheds etc etc was abysmal.

I see the Tories think it's quite adequate for the 21st century though.

I knew that when I read in the Guardian this morning that cabinet ministers were being asked to brace for 40% cuts to their departments, but education would be ring-fenced, that actually education was therefore going to be very far from ring-fenced.

The double-speak endemic in politics these days doesn't even try to be clever anymore. They just seem to say the opposite of what they are going to do and don't even bother to finesse it.

I have difficulty taking the ConservaLib cuts seriously until they

a) cancel the Trident replacement, the single most expensive unfunded item on the government's agenda, and surely the least useful
b) shine a light on operational expenses as opposed to taking the bureaucratically easy path of canceling infrastructure
c) stop this ring-fencing and wagon-circling that's being done purely to avoid their own democratic accountability, as opposed to inflicting mandatory five-year terms and coalition deals that can't be broken.
d) learn that the real problem isn't spending, it's the country's broken economy, import addiction, credit addiction, and ever shrinking tax base. Government spending isn't out of line -- government revenue is, and the reason the country can't afford to patch the hole with new taxes is because of what NuLab® did with regulatory policy, with trade, with the banks, with everything else, not because of what they did with spending or public services or the financial rescue. Yet the ConservaLibs think you can solve the problem solely with cuts in public spending, without the slightest thought to how you expand the economy. And on that myth, they're sealing the fate of Britain plc.

Nuance is a lost art.

i) Neoliberalism demands de-regulation, over the previous thirty years this has led to to a concentration of wealth in the upper echelons of our society, (and the US). It is Neoliberalism and it's ideas concerning a hyper unregulated free market which have ultimately led to the banking crises.

ii) Blair, Brown & Mandelson, New Labour, intended to use the tax receipts from a laissez-faire economy to pay for their public spending programmes, (The Third Way). It is important to recognise that the Labour government did indeed create a structural deficit, and borrow monies to fund public sector employment and projects.

Once banking crises hit, funding streams evaporated and we began to sink further and further into debt. Debt which otherwise would have been manageable had the banks not collapsed, decimating our economy and requiring huge public sector bail outs.

The truth is it is both the philosophy of Neoliberalism, and the behaviour of consecutive British governments which is to blame for our predicament. However I guess the truth is too subtle for most to discern, and resorting to tribal politics and blame is more satisfying.

If we want to change improve our way of life, it seems we do indeed have to make severe cuts; however once we have handled our austerity we should look to the root causes of this crises and resolve to change our society to ensure it can never ever happen again.

We must diversify our economy, invest in our future and save Capitalism from the Capitalists.

Of course hey to our renewal is the education and welfare of our youth, so if we had to preserve one thing, I would suggest it is our education system and its ability to provide world class learning & skills.

We're certainly going to need them.

@SentientKeyboard

Give it time.

All that's needed to educate a child is a few books, a good teacher, parents who value a good education and a child.

Everything else is just fluff.

GOVE SAID:-

He said: "There are some councils which entered the process six years ago which have only just started building new schools. Another project starting this year is three years behind schedule

HE IS PROBABLY RIGHT Because millions and millions of public money is wasted by councillors who are as dumb as ducks.

Councils including his own constituency partners SCC and SHBC (Surrey Heath Borough) have wasted t said millions on office moves and disasterous shopping developments. Council management processes are so archaic and this contributes to the huge waste of public funds at the hands of these incompetents.

Did I miss the discussion on investment in the new generation of nuclear power stations?

Did I miss anything re investment to alleviate travel congestion here on our Dorset roads.

Did I miss a promise to sell of the government wine cellar?

Did I miss the promise from the Tories that they will insist on Bursaries from top public schools for high flying children whose parents do not voteTorylibdem? (There will be thousands)

What else did I miss, I'll be back later!