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Poverty tsar: shirking fathers should lose their benefits

Welfare debate should shift from obsession with single mothers, says Labour MP Frank Field

Frank Field
Frank Field: 'I believe we have been obsessed with getting young mothers back to work, ­irrespective of what they think.' Photograph: David Rose/Rex Features

Britain must end its obsession with getting young single mothers into work, and focus on young, unemployed fathers whose historic role as the family breadwinner has had to be taken over by the taxpayer, Frank Field, David Cameron's poverty adviser, has said.

Field claimed many of these young, unemployed fathers will not accept offers of work for less than £300 a week since they feel it is not worth their while.

He suggests that men who refuse to take up a government offer of work should have their benefit removed altogether, a far tougher sanction than they face under the current benefits regime.

Field, the Labour MP who was commissioned by the government to carry out a review of poverty, said: "The reason why we have so many single mums is because we have so many single dads who cannot fulfil what most single mothers want from their partners, and the children from their fathers."

Ministers this week signalled a crackdown on incapacity benefit, with plans to reduce the benefit levels of claimants who are found capable of doing some work.

There are also plans to cut the housing benefit budget. The work and pensions secretary, Iain Duncan Smith, has spoken of encouraging people to leave "under-occupied" council homes and move into smaller properties.

Field's remarks underline the extent to which he believes the causes of social immobility lie not just not in material poverty, but also in character, child rearing and the loss of work for unskilled, working-class men.

He said successive governments had focused too much on monetary means to cure poverty. "Labour's very existence had become bound up with high public expenditure," he said. In remarks made in a lecture to the Attlee Foundation, a charity which works in disadvantaged areas, Field called for the welfare debate to shift from single mothers, and for the issue of unmarried fathers to be taken out of the shadows. He claimed "the feminisation of debate about poverty has largely been run by upwardly mobile, very successful women".

He said this debate has "largely ignored the agenda of working class women".

He explained: "For a large section of what used to be the core of the Labour vote – working class women – what they say they most want is a husband or partner in work which allows them their private domain of the family in which they can not only nurture but take on work when they think it is right, for their children, to do so."

The Tories are to require single mothers with children aged five or over to make themselves ready for work.

Field, a former welfare minister in the Blair government, said the drive to put lone mothers into work had also led to employers exploiting women by making it easier to drive down the wage rates of women who want to work full time.

"I believe we have been obsessed with getting young mothers back to work, irrespective of what they think and whether we think it is best for their children to do so," he said.

He hoped his poverty review would take out from the shadows "the unmarried father who is often young, unemployed and often unemployable and who is unskilled, and the way society has changed has made him redundant.

"The position he once held as breadwinner has been taken over by taxpayers. If they ever dare think about it, they are entering into an abyss of a life on benefit, trying to make ends meet with petty crime and drug dealing."

Field also called on the government to reinstate some version of Labour's jobs fund that guaranteed work for the unemployed. He said: "We need a reserve army of jobs for those who are desperate to get a job, who are drowning in their inability to do so."

He added that for those who have no intention of working, and who refuse a temporary public sector job, "there is no benefit whatsoever".

In remarks that will anger some of his fellow Labour MPs, he said Labour "has been becalmed by its concern, if not obsession, at seeing socialism being intimately related to the size of public expenditure".

He said he hoped the current debate about last week's coalition budget would be a "spur to rethinking, rather than being an agent through which we can retire on to safe territory".

He argued: "For what we have seen [during Labour's response to the budget] is that a central, if not the central idea now of what the Labour party stands for, which is high public expenditure, is not only being surmounted by opposing forces – but they are letting the ball and chain rain down on their heads as a result."

He said at some point in the 1960s the issue "how much are we spending" became Labour's new political virility symbol.

Labour thinking, he added, became "were we not only spending more than the last Labour government, but much more than those wretched Tories would ever spend?"


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  • Corinthian11 Corinthian11

    28 Jun 2010, 9:26PM

    Jobs for people who move house, 300 quid a week jobs being offered to absent fathers - so... where are these jobs Frank?

    And more to the point - when your Con-Dem mates add another million public sector jobs to the figures, half a million private sector jobs from those who depend upon public sector contracts, bump the sick from incapacity to unemployment benefit - where are these jobs coming from...

    Or is this merely what it looks like - some more flannel to blame the poor for being poor?

  • gluesticks gluesticks

    28 Jun 2010, 9:28PM

    @DavidJR

    I know, recognising that a parent should be financially responsible for his or her offspring. No wonder Brown marginalised Field during his years of tenure when he holds such reactionary, Victorian views like. Whatever next, working class women making rational choices about who to have children with, on the back of a state reluctance to play Daddy? Surely this won't come to pass?

  • KimJongSuBo KimJongSuBo

    28 Jun 2010, 9:30PM

    Oh for God's sake. Will people drop this whole neo-victorian uptight sexual morality nonsense once and for all? This is an apartheid of sexual morality. The lower orders, who rely on the family unit have to tow the line, whereas formula one executives can have themselves flogged into the afterlife. I, for one, am having none of it.

  • Northred Northred

    28 Jun 2010, 9:30PM

    Unbelievable ignorance.

    Single men get £65 per week in benefits.

    Doesn't this fool know anything?

    No one is ever offered a job in a job centre. There aren't any jobs.

    Geddit Mr Field?

    T H E R E A R E N O J O B S

  • cookage cookage

    28 Jun 2010, 9:30PM

    Good god how dare anyone prescribe to me what my role is. What good have traditional roles got in an equal society. Its saddening to hear a Labour MP use that rhetoric.

    "

    "The reason why we have so many single mums is because we have so many single dads who cannot fulfil what most single mothers want from their partners, and the children from their fathers."

    How does he know that? I bet there's not a shred of research behind that claim. Its typically ironic when ever gender comes into public debate- in a time when gender equality is the consensus- it's accompanied by generalisations and crude assumptions.

    Also maybe the obbsession with getting single mums to work is because they are the poorest families. Just a suggestion.

  • woman55 woman55

    28 Jun 2010, 9:37PM

    Frank is right. It takes 2 to make a baby and anyone who has children they cannot support is irresponsible. The taxpayer should not be the default support of children whose parents cannot get a well-paid job. If both parents work, even if in low-paid work, the tax-payer might help but the tax-payer taking over the parental role is not a good outcome.

  • Ashurstman Ashurstman

    28 Jun 2010, 9:37PM

    I hate to say this but Mr Field you are a traitor - and not just ti the working class, missing dads but to the whole labour movement.
    Can't we expel him for collaborating with a right wing government!

  • exile2 exile2

    28 Jun 2010, 9:38PM

    As so often I find myself in some sympathy with what Frank Field says. There's nothing socialist about people who can work refusing to do and being paid by the state for doing nothing. In passing it has to be said that this should be applied to the idle rich as well as to the idle poor, but that said, shouldn't we be listening to our working class supporters on this issue? With the emphasis on "working".

    There are practical difficulties. It is actually quite expensive to produce job creation schemes, and to maintain an army of investigators quizzing determined idlers as to their willingness to work. Part of the reason successive governments have tolerated high numbers of claimants is that it is relatively cheap.

    The point about public expenditure is worth considering too. We seem to have become instead of a tax and spend party, a spend and borrow party. We need to get that out of our system. If we want to fund public spending we need to make the case for taxes to support this. However if we don't stand for using
    the state to address inequality we need to find some other way of doing it.

    One of Field's ideas, mentioned here, is time-limited benefits. I can't support this idea. Some people are literally unemployable due to lack of skills, intelligence and "character". Do we want to force these people into a life of crime?

  • houses houses

    28 Jun 2010, 9:38PM

    I'd like to believe Field's heart is in the right place, but I don't.

    Why now, Frank? Yesterday it was loading the unemployed into cattle trucks for forced relocation, last week it was disabled people claiming DLA... and so on. The truth is the Tories have a list of everyone they want to get and they're just working their way through it.

    I see plenty of stick but no carrot.

    He suggests that men who refuse to take up a government offer of work should have their benefit removed altogether, a far tougher sanction than they face under the current benefits regime.

    What exactly does that mean? Where are these millions of £300 per week jobs? I'd like to know because I'd like to have one.

  • Bliad Bliad

    28 Jun 2010, 9:39PM

    This comment has been removed by a moderator. Replies may also be deleted.
  • defiti defiti

    28 Jun 2010, 9:41PM

    Wait. Hardly anyone's benefits get cut for refusing jobs. Why? Because it's so hard to prove. For most people, Job Centres see you once a fortnight. It is incredibly easy to shirk your way out of the door and they're very happy to accept pretty flimsy excuses.

    All of this is unworkable conjecture.

  • Northred Northred

    28 Jun 2010, 9:41PM

    Field claimed many of these young, unemployed fathers will not accept offers of work for less than £300 a week since they feel it is not worth their while.

    Well i was young once, and I saw my industry destroyed by the Tories. Then I watched New Labour totally ignore the devastation that remained, content to let people exist on the breadline of benefits between bouts of temporary employment, exploited by agencies, and then dumped back on the dole.

    Is this what women want, Mr Field? How dare you say that?

    Anyway, now I'm 48 and would kill for a job paying £300. Some chance. I've more chance of winning the lottery, and I don't play it becuase I can't afford the pound.

    I'm not a genius, but I'm not illiterate, Mr Field. Indeed, I appear to have a rather better grasp of reality than your good self.

    And I didn't stuff my mouth with gold under the MPs expenses and then fight tooth and nail to keep it a secret, like some I could mention.

  • Acamar Acamar

    28 Jun 2010, 9:41PM

    Frank Field is a disgrace, and apart from the fact that the Tories are using him to attack the poor, he would be a laugh, a strange, obsessive and slightly cracked man. It would help if Labour threw him out, but I know that would not get him out of parliament, unless recalled under Cameron's rules, which conveniently I suppose would not apply ... I suppose attacking the poorest people counts as gold stars from creeps like him.

  • snick snick

    28 Jun 2010, 9:42PM

    Am I to beleive that unemployed in the UK get 300/week on the dole? That sounds prettty deluxe to me. One should probably at the very least send a portion of that to the mum who bore his children. And to think they say that here is the US people are staying on welfare (and having more kids by various daddies) because the pay is too good. Amazing. I cannot imagine making so much for doing nothing. A new college graduate won't get that here, depending on one's specialty!

  • houses houses

    28 Jun 2010, 9:42PM

    Another thing - it's one thing to talk about time-limited benefits if you're running a fit, healthy economy - it's quite another when you're in the middle of a recession with a Chancellor who plainly has no comprehension of economics or history and who goes to great lengths to ensure large-scale job losses.

    I've changed my mind - this proposed policy from the 'poverty tsar' hahaha is so inept it's not worth commenting on further.

  • emilia emilia

    28 Jun 2010, 9:44PM

    I see. So your headline is that he's putting the "blame" (if blame we really must have) on fathers but actually it's the fault of women who work??

  • MyrtleMcRed MyrtleMcRed

    28 Jun 2010, 9:47PM

    And the compulsion to use those earnings (which at the moment are pretend-y as there is no work...) to support their families, where is that, Frank? It doesn't exist just now. Oh and how about the middle class men who job-hop, dropping out of work to avoid paying child support? Or the self-employed who live in half a million pound houses yet declare earnings of a couple of thousand with the same outcome?

    This isn't about encouraging financial responsibility, this is about behaviour. It's Charles Murray's underclass theory from the 1980s, so beloved of the Thatcherites, which itself was based on the historical 'explanations' like "problem families", Victorian deserving/undeserving, the social residuum. Bugger all about relieving poverty, everything to do with making already-hard lives all the more difficult, and aimed square at people who don't fit particular social norms.

  • MissAnneThropic MissAnneThropic

    28 Jun 2010, 9:47PM

    Even by the demanding standards of the day, this is plainly, rat-fuckingingly mental.

    Frank, just answer two daft questions for me;

    "focus on young, unemployed fathers" Didn't this used to be called the CSA?

    "men who refuse to take up a government offer of work should have their benefit removed" Isn't the public sector set to shrink by 25% (excepting a healthy increase in Czar related positions) at least?

  • Northred Northred

    28 Jun 2010, 9:50PM

    Even by the demanding standards of the day, this is plainly, rat-fuckingingly mental.

    Quite so.

    Written by the biggest hypocrite in Christendom.

    Given me a real Tory any day to this Benedict Arnold.

  • misfratz misfratz

    28 Jun 2010, 9:50PM

    Actually I think it is bloody wonderful that someone is finally acknowledging that us single mothers only exist because men choose to be crap to the women they've had relationships with. The bit about work- well, that's another issue. But shifting some of the burden of guilt off women who have suffered unfortunate relationships is a magnificent idea. Of course, I know that will be unpopular with the misogynist commenter crowd, but they can always go and masturbate over the fat-man-refusing-sperm-to-equally-or-less-fat-women story in life n' style.

  • UKhasgonetohell UKhasgonetohell

    28 Jun 2010, 9:52PM

    Northred
    28 Jun 2010, 9:30PM

    Unbelievable ignorance.

    Single men get £65 per week in benefits.

    Doesn't this fool know anything?

    No one is ever offered a job in a job centre. There aren't any jobs.

    Geddit Mr Field?

    T H E R E A R E N O J O B S

    Well I live in sheffield which has a fairly high unemployment statistic and I could walk into a minimum wage job tomorrow if I needed to, there are tons of jobs. I would much rather be working a minimum wage job than sponging off "the state" (i.e other peoples money) There are many many young single mothers and most of them get pregnant by choice in order to get benefits. The system is bust and the Honourable Mr Fields idea of trying to build back up the "traditional family unit" is an worthy pursuit indeed. However that being said families can end up worse on a wage than on benefits which is a fundamental flaw of the benefit system which traps people out of work. It needs to be addressed with a huge increase to the personal allowance for both tax & NI

  • Tichtheid Tichtheid

    28 Jun 2010, 9:52PM

    (Field) hoped his poverty review would take out from the shadows "the unmarried father who is often young, unemployed and often unemployable and who is unskilled, and the way society has changed has made him redundant.

    You can bring them out of the shadows, Frank, but where are the jobs for these unemployables you speak so disparagingly of?

    likewise;

    Ministers this week signalled a crackdown on incapacity benefit, with plans to reduce the benefit levels of claimants who are found capable of doing some work

    What jobs are going to be available for those who can only do "some work" - what employer is going to take on someone with a long term sickness record? Which insurance company is going to take on a public liability policy for that employee? It can be done, getting people back into the workplace, but only on a long term softly softly approach, "nursing" someone back to work if you like, not by punitive measures.

    People were put on to IB when it suited the Gov to reduce unemployment figures, now this Gov are demonising those on the bottom rung - where the hell are the policies to stop corruption and tax evasion, eh? But those would receive a bad hearing from Murdoch towers, I guess.

    I had a third point to make, but to be honest I'm just too bloody angry to remember it now.

  • Corinthian11 Corinthian11

    28 Jun 2010, 9:52PM

    Every day that passes with this wretched coalition government gets more surreal than the day before.

    There is a very good argument that Field's plan to encourage absent dads to contribute to their children's economic well-being is sound.

    But blimey - he doesn't half pick his moment to parp on about this.

  • Patrickdodds Patrickdodds

    28 Jun 2010, 9:53PM

    "He said successive governments had focused too much on monetary means to cure poverty."

    Of course, of course. The government should be concentrating on measurements other than income to get people out of poverty. Height, perhaps, or hair colour. Income as a method of judging relative poverty is so 20th century.

  • tomcmc tomcmc

    28 Jun 2010, 9:53PM

    I am all for making fathers take responsibility, but the young men I see through my work are often very disengaged from anything we might recognise as 'society'; other than taking, albeit, small benefit payments, that is.

    The problem with these measures is, as others have noted, there needs to be a job for them to take (and an employer willing to employ them).

  • blueboy66 blueboy66

    28 Jun 2010, 9:54PM

    Am I missing something here ? Were all these people on benefits, trading in sub prime mortgages and derivatives causing a global economic meltdown? Why didn't Robert Peston and Stephanie Flanders out them, the greedy, venal, incompetant scum.

  • DuncanMcFarlane DuncanMcFarlane

    28 Jun 2010, 9:56PM

    Field claimed many of these young, unemployed fathers will not accept offers of work for less than £300 a week since they feel it is not worth their while.

    I'm wondering what research this is based on , if any? I'm guessing Frank has followed his usual practice of simply making figures up based on nothing but his own prejudices.

    Cutting benefits for people who were supposedly turning down work already happened - under Labour.

    The welfare budget has risen in absolute terms over time, like every other area of spending, due to economic growth and inflation. However as a proportion of public spending it has fallen since 1997 from 20% in 1997 to 15% annually from 2005 through 2009.

    That means it stayed at the same proportion of public spending during the recession caused by the credit crisis as it was during a period of economic growth, which means that far from lots of people getting benefits they don't need, lots of people made unemployed by the credit crisis have not received the benefits they need, which may explain why demand in the economy remains so weak.

    He added that for those who have no intention of working, and who refuse a temporary public sector job, "there is no benefit whatsoever".

    So what happens to people who CAN'T get jobs during a recession, or because they don't have the education or training for the jobs that are available Frank? They slowly starve in the street as a lesson to the rest?
    You're straight out of the nineteenth century on this.

    Why aren't we looking at the massive waste of money in PFIs and PPPs, in which the wealthiest - the top managers and major share-holders of PFI consortia - rook the taxpayer for billions every year in annual payments from NHS trusts and Education Authorities?

    Why aren't we looking at the massive subsidies the privatised rail companies get from hiking fares above inflation, while their investment costs are funded by lavish taxpayer subsidies?

    Why are we cutting benefits for the poorest, who need them, while continuing massive taxpayer subsidies to the wealthiest, who don't?

    Currently we are barely out of a recession. Thanks to the Coalition government's plans to force budget cuts on councils so big and so fast that they'll have to sack lots of people (rather than have phased voluntary redundancies) , combined with benefit cuts for all the newly unemployed, demand in the economy will fall, putting private sector workers out of jobs too as profits fall or become non-existent. Then we'll be in another, worse, recession.

    Please end the charade of caring about getting people out of poverty Frank and just join the (right wing) of the Conservative party, where you and Blair belong.

  • gefreiter gefreiter

    28 Jun 2010, 9:56PM

    Exile2 -
    "There are practical difficulties. It is actually quite expensive to produce job creation schemes, and to maintain an army of investigators quizzing determined idlers as to their willingness to work."

    Quite so. And for exactly the same reason unjust decisions will be made in respect of eg Disability Benefit. When you are taking a knife to public services you can't at the same time employ sufficient people to properly examine each case and come to a fair decision or properly fund alternative jobs if the private sector can't. It also requires 'joined up government' (and whatever happened to that). Of course the benefits bill has to be reduced but lets see it done thoughtfully.

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